Helping Kids with Supplementals

[No Politics]

I've seen a lot of talk about tryout/AA/AAA craziness in other posts, and I can attest that it's WAY worse than past years.

Every year I help families track tryouts, and this year it's a mess.  Like others have said, some programs are being left, others are being overwhelmed, AAA kids are going AA, etc.  We've read enough about the AAA problems, but I have heard of (and witnessed) multiple AA tryouts with over forty skaters.  And I have also witnessed regular A-level tryouts with less than ten.

This is beyond sad, because it is the kids who suffer.  I mean, where does the A Major Black kid go who knows -- and whose family knows -- he is A Major Black?  This year?  The tryout with four kids and a goalie.

We know what's going to happen when all these AAA/AA tryouts end.  It's already started -- SUPPLEMENTALS and tons of orphan players.

I feel bad for the level-headed families who are ultimately left out in the dark, so I thought we could all come together on this site and post UNBIASED supplemental information and team overviews (this team needs forwards, this team needs two D and a goalie, etc.).  Not to poke fun, not to say "serves them right," but for the kids who are in danger of losing one season of what we all know is a VERY short, VERY fast youth career.  I personally don't like some programs, but I will still post what they offer if I find it.  Again, it's for the kids.

I am a North Hills guy, so I'm limited to mostly northern information, and I don't have info on all the northern programs.  I've also been helping '07 to '09 kids this season, so I'm limited there.  So please jump in if you have anything (especially in the south and other age groups).  I think it would make more sense to have separate topics for different age groups (18U, etc.), too.

Can we do this?

 

 

[RJUSHL]

I agree that it's important to have some information out there. Some people will walk into a situation expecting one thing and end up getting something completely different. Meanwhile the team they thought they were joining all scattered without them knowing. It happens all the time.

I'm most familiar with the 2013s and 2009s so I'll stick to that. And in those years I'm most familiar with teams up and down 79 and even some in the south hills.

2009s have seen more movement than any season for any birth year that I can remember. It will be helpful for parents to understand what is going on.

FOXES 09: I think their 2009 tryouts are over, but they are losing most of their top players to either North Pittsburgh or Rebellion. It's a big organization so I'm sure they filled out an 09 BY team but they will struggle. If someone is a good player that has never quite made a AA team, it may be worth inquiring with the Foxes but I would do it ASAP. This will be one of the easier 2009 AA teams to make. Don't think they've announced a supplemental but I would still inquire.

NORTH PITT 09: 2009 tryouts starting this weekend. They are picking up a lot of the Foxes players and others. I think some AAA kids trying out there as well. If you are expecting to jump in and make that AA team because you've always been AA, you may want to start thinking about another option just in case. This will be a good team.

LEBO 09: Lost 3-4 of their top players to AAA teams. This was an ok team that was top heavy before but not good depth. These losses will change the team. Like Foxes, this will be one of the easier 09 AA teams to make. They are going to have to give spots to kids who have previously never played higher than A Major. Could be a good option for someone who wants to break into a AA team but they won't be a strong team. The long time head coach is now an assistant coach. Not exactly sure of those circumstances. I'm guessing after losing a lot of their top players, they'll have more players explore other AA options this weekend.

REBELLION 09: Solid AA team last year and I haven't heard of any of their top players leaving. I haven't heard of a single person on that team wanting to leave, and I am familiar with some of them. Their strength is their coaching (Shell, Tingle, etc.) and if coaching and structure is a priority, this is the place. Just like many of the Foxes 09 players are looking north to North Pitt, many of them are looking to move to Rebellion as well. AAA cuts from SHAHA and Preds are looking here as well. This team will get a lot better but may not be as hard to make as North Pitt.

PREDS 09 AAA: Big tryout numbers with lots of Pens and Esmark kids. Longtime AAA kids didn't make the team. Most of those cuts being offered spots on their AA team, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest with some better teams with better coaching nearby. Kids are looking at lots of options like Rebellion and Lebo to a lesser extent. Kids that were cut from this AAA team will have a very good chance of making Rebellion or Lebo. I think both of those tryouts are this weekend. Not sure how the Preds AA will do. They were a last place team last year. Depends on if the AAA cuts stay or leave, and it seems like more are leaving. Preds 09 AAA may end up being the second best 09 Tier 1 team in the area. They should be close to Vengeance.

SHAHA 09 AAA: This team made lots of changes and improved. They took some of the Lebo AA players which is nice to see they didn't just favor existing AAA kids because they had an extra letter. Also picked up some Vengeance kids. It will be an improved team. Their AAA cuts seem to be looking at Rebellion and not staying at SHAHA.

Lots of movement already, but even more to come over the next few days and over the weekend. Parents should go into these situations aware of what is happening. But parents should also remember that one team getting weaker could mean an opportunity for their kid.

I think parents should prioritize:

1. Coaching experience
2. Location to their home
3. After those two, consider competitiveness of the team

Coaching is what keeps a team together, helps them improve, and can prevent drama (with parents and kids) even before it starts. Driving distance from your home will make a huge difference in how much your kid loves (or starts to hate) hockey.

We'll see some 09 supplementals next week. Usually those are used for filling in mixed birth year teams, but some desperate AA teams could offer them as well.

Edited April 20, 2023 by RJUSHL

[aaaahockey]

I can usually help with u16 now and girls most ages although I thought girls was insane this year at some levels.  

[No Politics]

9 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

I can usually help with u16 now and girls most ages although I thought girls was insane this year at some levels.  

I am helping a couple families with 14U girls, but I’m out of my element.  I only saw NP, the Huskies, and the Badgers having regular, non-NB programs for girls.

I hope I am missing some.

[JohanHedberg1]

2 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

I agree that it's important to have some information out there. Some people will walk into a situation expecting one thing and end up getting something completely different. Meanwhile the team they thought they were joining all scattered without them knowing. It happens all the time.

I'm most familiar with the 2013s and 2009s so I'll stick to that. And in those years I'm most familiar with teams up and down 79 and even some in the south hills.

2009s have seen more movement than any season for any birth year that I can remember. It will be helpful for parents to understand what is going on.

FOXES 09: I think their 2009 tryouts are over, but they are losing most of their top players to either North Pittsburgh or Rebellion. It's a big organization so I'm sure they filled out an 09 BY team but they will struggle. If someone is a good player that has never quite made a AA team, it may be worth inquiring with the Foxes but I would do it ASAP. This will be one of the easier 2009 AA teams to make. Don't think they've announced a supplemental but I would still inquire.

NORTH PITT 09: 2009 tryouts starting this weekend. They are picking up a lot of the Foxes players and others. I think some AAA kids trying out there as well. If you are expecting to jump in and make that AA team because you've always been AA, you may want to start thinking about another option just in case. This will be a good team.

LEBO 09: Lost 3-4 of their top players to AAA teams. This was an ok team that was top heavy before but not good depth. These losses will change the team. Like Foxes, this will be one of the easier 09 AA teams to make. They are going to have to give spots to kids who have previously never played higher than A Major. Could be a good option for someone who wants to break into a AA team but they won't be a strong team. The long time head coach is now an assistant coach. Not exactly sure of those circumstances. I'm guessing after losing a lot of their top players, they'll have more players explore other AA options this weekend.

REBELLION 09: Solid AA team last year and I haven't heard of any of their top players leaving. I haven't heard of a single person on that team wanting to leave, and I am familiar with some of them. Their strength is their coaching (Shell, Tingle, etc.) and if coaching and structure is a priority, this is the place. Just like many of the Foxes 09 players are looking north to North Pitt, many of them are looking to move to Rebellion as well. AAA cuts from SHAHA and Preds are looking here as well. This team will get a lot better but may not be as hard to make as North Pitt.

PREDS 09 AAA: Big tryout numbers with lots of Pens and Esmark kids. Longtime AAA kids didn't make the team. Most of those cuts being offered spots on their AA team, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest with some better teams with better coaching nearby. Kids are looking at lots of options like Rebellion and Lebo to a lesser extent. Kids that were cut from this AAA team will have a very good chance of making Rebellion or Lebo. I think both of those tryouts are this weekend. Not sure how the Preds AA will do. They were a last place team last year. Depends on if the AAA cuts stay or leave, and it seems like more are leaving. Preds 09 AAA may end up being the second best 09 Tier 1 team in the area. They should be close to Vengeance.

SHAHA 09 AAA: This team made lots of changes and improved. They took some of the Lebo AA players which is nice to see they didn't just favor existing AAA kids because they had an extra letter. Also picked up some Vengeance kids. It will be an improved team. Their AAA cuts seem to be looking at Rebellion and not staying at SHAHA.

Lots of movement already, but even more to come over the next few days and over the weekend. Parents should go into these situations aware of what is happening. But parents should also remember that one team getting weaker could mean an opportunity for their kid.

I think parents should prioritize:

1. Coaching experience
2. Location to their home
3. After those two, consider competitiveness of the team

Coaching is what keeps a team together, helps them improve, and can prevent drama (with parents and kids) even before it starts. Driving distance from your home will make a huge difference in how much your kid loves (or starts to hate) hockey.

We'll see some 09 supplementals next week. Usually those are used for filling in mixed birth year teams, but some desperate AA teams could offer them as well.

Shocker to hear Preds going to be that strong. T1HF can’t be the draw right. League defintely isn’t in the elite category but defintely growing. 

[aaaahockey]

9 hours ago, No Politics said:

I am helping a couple families with 14U girls, but I’m out of my element.  I only saw NP, the Huskies, and the Badgers having regular, non-NB programs for girls.

I hope I am missing some.

I believe Arctic Foxes is trying to field both a NB team and a non-NB team.   I also think SHAHA was trying for a U14 girls team but heard their girls program really got gutted this year at all levels so I'm not quite up to date on what came out of tryouts other than their u16 program folded.  Their tryouts are complete.  Morgantown was also trying to field a U14 team.   Honestly with girls hockey I suggest reaching out to program coordinator at the organization to see what the current situation is. Many teams have capacity to add later depending on the size of the team they were able to field.  

[HockeyFan6687]

19 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

I agree that it's important to have some information out there. Some people will walk into a situation expecting one thing and end up getting something completely different. Meanwhile the team they thought they were joining all scattered without them knowing. It happens all the time.

I'm most familiar with the 2013s and 2009s so I'll stick to that. And in those years I'm most familiar with teams up and down 79 and even some in the south hills.

2009s have seen more movement than any season for any birth year that I can remember. It will be helpful for parents to understand what is going on.

FOXES 09: I think their 2009 tryouts are over, but they are losing most of their top players to either North Pittsburgh or Rebellion. It's a big organization so I'm sure they filled out an 09 BY team but they will struggle. If someone is a good player that has never quite made a AA team, it may be worth inquiring with the Foxes but I would do it ASAP. This will be one of the easier 2009 AA teams to make. Don't think they've announced a supplemental but I would still inquire.

NORTH PITT 09: 2009 tryouts starting this weekend. They are picking up a lot of the Foxes players and others. I think some AAA kids trying out there as well. If you are expecting to jump in and make that AA team because you've always been AA, you may want to start thinking about another option just in case. This will be a good team.

LEBO 09: Lost 3-4 of their top players to AAA teams. This was an ok team that was top heavy before but not good depth. These losses will change the team. Like Foxes, this will be one of the easier 09 AA teams to make. They are going to have to give spots to kids who have previously never played higher than A Major. Could be a good option for someone who wants to break into a AA team but they won't be a strong team. The long time head coach is now an assistant coach. Not exactly sure of those circumstances. I'm guessing after losing a lot of their top players, they'll have more players explore other AA options this weekend.

REBELLION 09: Solid AA team last year and I haven't heard of any of their top players leaving. I haven't heard of a single person on that team wanting to leave, and I am familiar with some of them. Their strength is their coaching (Shell, Tingle, etc.) and if coaching and structure is a priority, this is the place. Just like many of the Foxes 09 players are looking north to North Pitt, many of them are looking to move to Rebellion as well. AAA cuts from SHAHA and Preds are looking here as well. This team will get a lot better but may not be as hard to make as North Pitt.

PREDS 09 AAA: Big tryout numbers with lots of Pens and Esmark kids. Longtime AAA kids didn't make the team. Most of those cuts being offered spots on their AA team, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest with some better teams with better coaching nearby. Kids are looking at lots of options like Rebellion and Lebo to a lesser extent. Kids that were cut from this AAA team will have a very good chance of making Rebellion or Lebo. I think both of those tryouts are this weekend. Not sure how the Preds AA will do. They were a last place team last year. Depends on if the AAA cuts stay or leave, and it seems like more are leaving. Preds 09 AAA may end up being the second best 09 Tier 1 team in the area. They should be close to Vengeance.

SHAHA 09 AAA: This team made lots of changes and improved. They took some of the Lebo AA players which is nice to see they didn't just favor existing AAA kids because they had an extra letter. Also picked up some Vengeance kids. It will be an improved team. Their AAA cuts seem to be looking at Rebellion and not staying at SHAHA.

Lots of movement already, but even more to come over the next few days and over the weekend. Parents should go into these situations aware of what is happening. But parents should also remember that one team getting weaker could mean an opportunity for their kid.

I think parents should prioritize:

1. Coaching experience
2. Location to their home
3. After those two, consider competitiveness of the team

Coaching is what keeps a team together, helps them improve, and can prevent drama (with parents and kids) even before it starts. Driving distance from your home will make a huge difference in how much your kid loves (or starts to hate) hockey.

We'll see some 09 supplementals next week. Usually those are used for filling in mixed birth year teams, but some desperate AA teams could offer them as well.

How do you obtain all of this information? That’s more coverage than NHL preseason!

[No Politics]

18 minutes ago, HockeyFan6687 said:

How do you obtain all of this information? That’s more coverage than NHL preseason!

I am not able to speak for others, but I know what I know because I've been around so long and know so many families who share information with me.  Too many tryouts are blacked out (silly in my opinion), so it's hard to know how many kids were there, what they looked like, etc.

That's how I knew there were over forty kids at some tryouts and less than ten at others.

[No Politics]

Some info for '08 parents out there.  There are also 16U programs out there with tryouts/supplementals coming up, but this is for '08s only.  I am working with about a dozen different '08 families right now, so I probably have the most info about them (followed by '09s -- total mess right now -- and '07s).  I will try posting those separately along with the mixed-year options.  Please feel free to add information from other programs or these, and please keep everything positive.  Remember:  for THE KIDS, not revenge, etc.

And one last note:  Parents, this tryout season has been nuts, but if you and your children are unwilling to say "this team feels right" and to stay there, you're adding to the problem.  You're running out of BY and AAA/AA options, so maybe that will chill everything out for everyone!

'08 Huskies

-  '08 Huskies are holding tryouts tomorrow morning (10:00am) at PIA.  This may be a great opportunity for families of higher-level players (A Major and up), as I was told this is the third of three tryouts, and the AA team they thought they could place may be in question because a few players made Vengeance, Icemen, and Renegades AAA/AA teams and went there instead.  

-  I was also told some other parents were spooked by the Huskies initial push to make this team AHF only (no PAHL).  However, players and parents were told that they are planning to play a modified PAHL/AHF schedule with showcases as we are seeing with other programs.

-  I will say that it is my impression that the Huskies haven't been able to make the transition happen very smoothly at that rink yet.  Their website is down (horrible timing, right?) and you have to use the PIA site to register, for example.  So since it's tomorrow morning, I was told just show up if you can't register in time.  If I was a higher-level '08 parent, I'd go if I lived close enough and had the time.  Seems like a very viable opportunity to consolidate some orphans in that area, and I think they'll work out the kinks.  And with those existing kinks, it may open up a lot of ice time and attention to this team's players. 

'08 Vipers Stars

-  '08 Vipers Stars are holding supplemental tryouts Monday, April 24th at 8:00pm at Alpha.  From what I've been told, they had the same thing happen as I mentioned happened to the Huskies.  They had a decent team, but then the AAA/AA tryouts elsewhere pecked away at their team.  They are looking to fill those newly created gaps.

-  I personally spoke with three parents who said their kids really liked the head coach, and decided to stay for that reason.  I heard from Alpha folks that this team is set to play out of Shadyside Academy, so keep that in mind.  That rink is VERY nice, but can be hard to access.  And given that it is a private rink, ice times may be sketchy.  Again, though, it could be great for local orphans, and parents with experience with the new coach are upbeat about the possibilities.

'08 Badgers

-  '08 Badgers start Monday the 24th (6:30pm) and run through Tuesday (7:00pm) according to their website.  The tryouts are at Palmer (Delmont), and tryouts are still open.  Sorry, but no parents have shared any information about these tryouts (probably because they haven't started!).

[Zarg]

Arctic Foxes have on their tryout page that they will be holding 2 supplemental sessions for their girls' teams next weekend, one for Girls 10U and 12U and the other for Girls 14U and 19U. 

[PittsburghHockeyFan]

The Pittsburgh Aviators are having a 14U/16U Supplemental this Thursday. This is for three teams. 
14U 09BY
14U Mix BY
16U

Interested Parents/kids can register here: https://bit.ly/avs16U-14U

[No Politics]

I also just heard that the Huskies '08 BY team is holding supplementals next Sunday at 10:00am.  They have information on the Pittsburgh Ice Arena page.

And every time you hear of multiple supplementals in the same area, do you ever think "why don't they just combine teams?", or is that just me?  Ha ha.

[Lifelongbender]

36 minutes ago, No Politics said:

And every time you hear of multiple supplementals in the same area, do you ever think "why don't they just combine teams?", or is that just me?  Ha ha.

It's not just you.

[sadday4hockey]

Why combine them when you can do this instead?

[sadday4hockey]

This sport be broked

[Happy Hockey Fan]

We all know why there is no combining, one or both teams coach or coaches want to be in charge. 

[nemesis8679]

20 hours ago, No Politics said:

I also just heard that the Huskies '08 BY team is holding supplementals next Sunday at 10:00am.  They have information on the Pittsburgh Ice Arena page.

And every time you hear of multiple supplementals in the same area, do you ever think "why don't they just combine teams?", or is that just me?  Ha ha.

Definitely not just you. It's frustrating seeing this happen, all the kids spreading out and leaving each team with 3-5 players that belong at the level they're at, and filling the team with whoever is left. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by nemesis8679

[fafa fohi]

14 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Definitely not just you. It's frustrating seeing this happen, all the kids spreading out and leaving each teah with 3-5 players that belong at the level they're at, and filling the team with whoever is left. 

Agreed, and if you have a kid that is true AA level I would stay away from any organization that is having a supplemental tryout to fill their AA teams.  NP, Allegheny and SCIR would be safe bets to field teams with true AA level players.

Word is players that got cut by Esmark / Vengeance are finding homes at these orgs AA teams.  

I hope the parents of "former" AAA teams that bought all of the AAA swag are OK with their kids playing at the AA level.  My guess is most of the kids are good with it, mom and dad not so much.  Hopefully they will realize playing at the AA level with a chance to go to Nationals is better than having their kid play for a diluted AAA team that wins ten games in a season and is out of the running for MidAms qualification by November.  Look no further than Preds or Icemen teams from last season.

Edited April 26, 2023 by fafa fohi

[Duster19]

Yes, yes…Look no further than Preds or Icemen teams from last season.  Truer words have never been spoken.

 

however, I would say both Icemen and Preds are both diluted AA teams supplemented w actual A Major types trying to get that extra A.

lose a lot of games, pay twice as much and travel a lot more for nothing to play for at the end of the season.  But, there is a customer base for that so kudos to Icemen and Preds for providing the ego based money grabs.

[Ihearthockey]

37 minutes ago, Duster19 said:

Yes, yes…Look no further than Preds or Icemen teams from last season.  Truer words have never been spoken.

 

however, I would say both Icemen and Preds are both diluted AA teams supplemented w actual A Major types trying to get that extra A.

lose a lot of games, pay twice as much and travel a lot more for nothing to play for at the end of the season.  But, there is a customer base for that so kudos to Icemen and Preds for providing the ego based money grabs.

Truer words never spoken

[Lifelongbender]

7 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

We all know why there is no combining, one or both teams coach or coaches want to be in charge. 

This is absolutely true. Also, the orgs want the players, because players pay to play. You'd never see an org agreeing to combine teams with another org unless it would be under their own label.

[HockeyFan6687]

So when all these AAA kids move in and displace good players who are loyal to their organization, is it really the right thing to do and load up with all these outsiders when the odds favor the one and done scenario where next year’s AAA opportunity will be their next destination??  In the process you’ve lost a nucleus of your team but you potentially have lost the talent LOYAL to your organization.  Thus losing the ability to field a given birth year.

is blowing your load to be all in on the obsession of going to nationals worth it for your organization if it means losing the long term viability to ice a competitive team of LOYAL players that can have a shot year in and year out?  I think some organizations are potentially playing with fire.    
 

 

[zam]

6 hours ago, HockeyFan6687 said:

So when all these AAA kids move in and displace good players who are loyal to their organization, is it really the right thing to do and load up with all these outsiders when the odds favor the one and done scenario where next year’s AAA opportunity will be their next destination??  In the process you’ve lost a nucleus of your team but you potentially have lost the talent LOYAL to your organization.  Thus losing the ability to field a given birth year.

is blowing your load to be all in on the obsession of going to nationals worth it for your organization if it means losing the long term viability to ice a competitive team of LOYAL players that can have a shot year in and year out?  I think some organizations are potentially playing with fire.    
 

 

Very very few players/families are loyal to a particular organization long term.  Players and organizations look out for their own interests. The best kids are generally always going to leave for better opportunities (and you can't blame them).  And the weakest kids get cut. (unless there's some nepotism or cronyism) This is true for House League all the way through Juniors and Professional.  The players thatv do stay within an organization long term are typically there because their are happy with their placement and don't have better opportunities. Or because of some other self interest, like it's close to their house, they aren't willing to increase the time and financial commitment to the sport and so on. 
 

 

[bender05]

7 hours ago, HockeyFan6687 said:

So when all these AAA kids move in and displace good players who are loyal to their organization, is it really the right thing to do and load up with all these outsiders when the odds favor the one and done scenario where next year’s AAA opportunity will be their next destination??  In the process you’ve lost a nucleus of your team but you potentially have lost the talent LOYAL to your organization.  Thus losing the ability to field a given birth year.

is blowing your load to be all in on the obsession of going to nationals worth it for your organization if it means losing the long term viability to ice a competitive team of LOYAL players that can have a shot year in and year out?  I think some organizations are potentially playing with fire.    
 

 

In the instance of 14u 2009 and 16u 2007, these local organizations are just trying to get to nationals. If there are aaa players coming to try to get on a team that they really think is national bound and either got cut or think a certain team really could make it to nationals, a team won’t cut someone new coming in that will help them achieve that for someone who has been there 8 years. That’s just the reality of it. A lot of times at that age, kids that have been playing aaa are sick of the travel and want more of a social life heading into high school and will end up just staying on AA teams anyway.  

[No Politics]

1 hour ago, zam said:

Very very few players/families are loyal to a particular organization long term.  Players and organizations look out for their own interests. The best kids are generally always going to leave for better opportunities (and you can't blame them).  And the weakest kids get cut. (unless there's some nepotism or cronyism) This is true for House League all the way through Juniors and Professional.  The players thatv do stay within an organization long term are typically there because their are happy with their placement and don't have better opportunities. Or because of some other self interest, like it's close to their house, they aren't willing to increase the time and financial commitment to the sport and so on. 
 

 

Zam, I agree with part, and disagree with part.  

I think there are a good number of players/families who are either loyal or who WANT to stay loyal.  But there are other families/players who do look out for their own interests.  Those are the kids who leave teams in shambles, and then the loyal families have to scramble to find homes.  I see that every year.

That's why I am no longer critical of families who have been at five different organizations, etc.  Anymore you aren't able to tell if it is the family's fault or just circumstances (even five-plus times).

It's really, really sad.