What will happen to the good 2009 AA PAHL teams?

[Icebucket]

I don't understand why those top 09s wouldn't just look to make a good U16 AA team?  I believe most of the consistently AA teams are taking the top players whether they are major or minor year by U16.  For the individual players, there isn't really any benefit to sticking to a true U15 team if you are good enough to make a split U16AA team.

[PUCKCOVID19]

this is the age where YURI starts his used car salesman pitch and ropes these parents in for lessons camps his new advisor bs he does as well. Promises the world, then brings in handful of euro players and end of dec when rosters have be cut down. bye bye local players.........

[Saucey]

Or you could just look for the team and coach that develops your kid and fits with him the best. I loathe this fascination with by by by. My kids definitely benefited from playing with and against older players. 

[nemesis8679]

The answer why teams don't just split it up and put the best 15u players and best 16u players on one team is because then they might not be playing with their friends anymore. That goes for both teams. 

And that's why some teams will never win anything. 

Edited February 9 by nemesis8679

[bender05]

On 2/8/2024 at 4:13 PM, PUCKCOVID19 said:

this is the age where YURI starts his used car salesman pitch and ropes these parents in for lessons camps his new advisor bs he does as well. Promises the world, then brings in handful of euro players and end of dec when rosters have be cut down. bye bye local players.........

apparently not a lot of kids showing up for those open skates for 09 esmark 

[dazedandconfused]

At least they still have their 07's. The greatest team that never was.

[PUCKCOVID19]

1 hour ago, bender05 said:

apparently not a lot of kids showing up for those open skates for 09 esmark 

I sure he will show up at mid ams in Toledo again this year and try his usual tricks 

[Nepotisim_anyone]

So back to the original question where are all of these 09 players going to go?
 

[Wildcat19]

Rumor is that Icemen are raising costs. The 09 team wants to stay together but doesn’t want to pay more plus all the extra costs Icemen are notorious for

[twoboys]

On 2/8/2024 at 3:15 PM, Icebucket said:

I don't understand why those top 09s wouldn't just look to make a good U16 AA team?  I believe most of the consistently AA teams are taking the top players whether they are major or minor year by U16.  For the individual players, there isn't really any benefit to sticking to a true U15 team if you are good enough to make a split U16AA team.

Because the vast majority of kids and parents don't want this.  It isn't about being on the best team.  It is all about having continuity, the kid having fun and being on a reasonable team.

[Nepotisim_anyone]

Raise costs… for what? Frozen pond? 

[Wildcat]

39 minutes ago, Nepotisim_anyone said:

Raise costs… for what? Frozen pond? 

Because they have some strong teams and see an opportunity to squeeze those people.  They're betting they'll bite the bullet and stay on a strong team rather than risk going elsewhere

[dazedandconfused]

MF and DW

Two great ambassadors for the good of hockey.

 

[Corsi]

5 hours ago, Wildcat19 said:

Rumor is that Icemen are raising costs. The 09 team wants to stay together but doesn’t want to pay more plus all the extra costs Icemen are notorious for

The 09 team that competed as Tier 2 this past season is being advertised as moving up to Tier 1 AAA next season.  The extra "A" must mean extra cost.

[RJUSHL]

On 3/13/2024 at 11:18 AM, bender05 said:

apparently not a lot of kids showing up for those open skates for 09 esmark 

I'm sure that's true but you can't tell much by these informal pre-tryout secret skates, especially when the timing of many of these skates violates USA hockey rules.

[RJUSHL]

On 3/13/2024 at 12:22 PM, PUCKCOVID19 said:

I sure he will show up at mid ams in Toledo again this year and try his usual tricks 

Too late at that point, right? Teams are picked already. I'm sure a kid or two moves and forks over thousands in committment fees, but not many.

[RJUSHL]

2 hours ago, Corsi said:

The 09 team that competed as Tier 2 this past season is being advertised as moving up to Tier 1 AAA next season.  The extra "A" must mean extra cost.

They're kind of stuck in the middle. They won AHF and also beat many AAA teams over the course of the season. It makes sense they are moving to Tier 1.

Black Bear owns the rink so they are forced to play either 15U AA AHF or 15U AAA THF. They will fit much better in the Tier 1 league.

If they weren't attached to Black Bear, they could play 16U AA PAHL next year but would likely be the best team even though they are a year younger than most teams.

The problem is that they will be the weakest 09 Tier 1 team in the area, but Tier 1 is still probably the best choice for them.

[RJUSHL]

On 3/13/2024 at 1:10 PM, Nepotisim_anyone said:

So back to the original question where are all of these 09 players going to go?
 

Well there will be six Tier 1 09 teams next season. Compared with four this season. Esmark is really going to have to work some magic to put together a good team. We'll see. Tier 1 will be a bit watered down I think. PPE may start to bring in non-locals and that always shakes things up. And a few of the top top kids will look at prep schools.

For Tier II, the better 09 AA players are going to gravitate towards the teams that are putting together a 15U team. Any 09 team that stays together will probably play A Major if they play in PAHL. Playing against older but less skilled kids than they are used to. I would guess that Allegheny and South Pitt will have 15U teams to match AHF 15U AA division. They don't have much choice but to play in that league.  And I'm guessing those two teams will not be playing PAHL and then just schedule a lot of independent games. Those two teams will probably pick up a lot of PAHL AA kids from other organizations that are putting together 16U mixed teams. Kids from Foxes 09 and North Pitt 09 will probably seek out other 09 teams since they won't have a birth year team option anymore. I think SCIR is the only 09 team that will try and compete in 16U AA PAHL. Preds will no longer have an 09 AA team so those kids will look around to find an 09 team. I'm not sure about Lebo, but if they keep their 09 team there is no way they can play AA next year.

 

[YardSale]

13 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Well there will be six Tier 1 09 teams next season. Compared with four this season. Esmark is really going to have to work some magic to put together a good team. We'll see. Tier 1 will be a bit watered down I think. PPE may start to bring in non-locals and that always shakes things up. And a few of the top top kids will look at prep schools.

For Tier II, the better 09 AA players are going to gravitate towards the teams that are putting together a 15U team. Any 09 team that stays together will probably play A Major if they play in PAHL. Playing against older but less skilled kids than they are used to. I would guess that Allegheny and South Pitt will have 15U teams to match AHF 15U AA division. They don't have much choice but to play in that league.  And I'm guessing those two teams will not be playing PAHL and then just schedule a lot of independent games. Those two teams will probably pick up a lot of PAHL AA kids from other organizations that are putting together 16U mixed teams. Kids from Foxes 09 and North Pitt 09 will probably seek out other 09 teams since they won't have a birth year team option anymore. I think SCIR is the only 09 team that will try and compete in 16U AA PAHL. Preds will no longer have an 09 AA team so those kids will look around to find an 09 team. I'm not sure about Lebo, but if they keep their 09 team there is no way they can play AA next year.

 

That is going to add up to a lot of travel for Badgers and South Pittsburgh

[Nepotisim_anyone]

Well I think Esmark’s future depends, on some extent, on that dad that destroyed their team and whether or not a bunch of parents continue to follow him or do their own thing and go back?

[nemesis8679]

19 minutes ago, Nepotisim_anyone said:

Well I think Esmark’s future depends, on some extent, on that dad that destroyed their team and whether or not a bunch of parents continue to follow him or do their own thing and go back?

Where did they all go?

[Icebucket]

38 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Well there will be six Tier 1 09 teams next season. Compared with four this season. Esmark is really going to have to work some magic to put together a good team. We'll see. Tier 1 will be a bit watered down I think. PPE may start to bring in non-locals and that always shakes things up. And a few of the top top kids will look at prep schools.

For Tier II, the better 09 AA players are going to gravitate towards the teams that are putting together a 15U team. Any 09 team that stays together will probably play A Major if they play in PAHL. Playing against older but less skilled kids than they are used to. I would guess that Allegheny and South Pitt will have 15U teams to match AHF 15U AA division. They don't have much choice but to play in that league.  And I'm guessing those two teams will not be playing PAHL and then just schedule a lot of independent games. Those two teams will probably pick up a lot of PAHL AA kids from other organizations that are putting together 16U mixed teams. Kids from Foxes 09 and North Pitt 09 will probably seek out other 09 teams since they won't have a birth year team option anymore. I think SCIR is the only 09 team that will try and compete in 16U AA PAHL. Preds will no longer have an 09 AA team so those kids will look around to find an 09 team. I'm not sure about Lebo, but if they keep their 09 team there is no way they can play AA next year.

 

I think it is crazy that the 09s would all want to play as a u15 tier 2 team, especially considering that level technically doesn't exist.  Tier 2 should just be U16; show up to tryouts and take the top 18-20 whether they are 08 or 09.

[RJUSHL]

40 minutes ago, Icebucket said:

I think it is crazy that the 09s would all want to play as a u15 tier 2 team, especially considering that level technically doesn't exist.  Tier 2 should just be U16; show up to tryouts and take the top 18-20 whether they are 08 or 09.

What makes sense has very little to do with it. The top tournaments/showcases and increasingly more leagues (AHF) all have 15U divisions. And parents have spoken with their wallets. The best players want to, and currently do play on birth year teams. It’s just reality. PAHL is too principled (old school) to understand this. 

Edited March 14 by RJUSHL

[Icebucket]

16 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

What makes “sense” has very little to do with it. The top tournaments/showcases and increasingly more leagues (AHF) all have 15U divisions. And parents have spoken with their wallets. The best players want to, and currently do play on birth year teams. It’s just reality. PAHL is too principled (old school) to understand this. 

Maybe I just don't buy the "all the best tier 2 first year midgets play 15U". Even just using this year as an example, Armstrong and NP had about 15 08s on their 16AA teams. You think those players weren't capable of making a tier 2 15U team?

[RJUSHL]

14 minutes ago, Icebucket said:

Maybe I just don't buy the "all the best tier 2 first year midgets play 15U". Even just using this year as an example, Armstrong and NP had about 15 08s on their 16AA teams. You think those players weren't capable of making a tier 2 15U team?

If that number is right that is a lot. More than usual. Those kids absolutely would make a Tier 2 15U team. But next season those players will now be on a comparatively worse team as it relates to their skill that has had a year to develop.