PAHL AA Playoffs

[nemesis8679]

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Maybe they should just all play for fun and not keep score!  But then why even have PAHL? Just let all the kids play pickup at their home rinks!  I just think if you are going to do something do it the best possible way.  There will always be parents who complain about something. That's life!  I admire the kids who play outside of PAHL and have their stats published!

"Doing it the best possible way" would be to keep track not just points and shutouts, for reasons I already explained. It would include hits, blocks, shots, turnovers, and take aways, etc. 

Maybe then we'd see players challenging themselves to play the whole game of hockey rather than cherry picking and trying to go coast to coast every time they get the puck?

The best possible way isn't keeping track of 3 or 4 statistics. 

[dazedandconfused]

People who are so fascinated and caught up in stats are almost 100% of the time the ones living vicariously through their kids because they NEVER accomplished anything in their athletic lifetime.

Edited March 7 by dazedandconfused

[aaaahockey]

14 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

People who are so fascinated and caught up in stats are almost 100% of the time are the ones living vicariously through their kids because they NEVER accomplished anything in their athletic lifetime.

Totally agree with this comment.  And stats do matter and I am in favor of publishing them.   At the same time your kid being shorted on 3 secondary assists (and probably accidentally been given one for something they had nothing to do with) isn't changing their trajectory. Grow up. 

[dazedandconfused]

100% - publish them anytime possible, but once published they're final. Parents F off.

Don't get me wrong, so do I enjoy seeing my kid's accomplishments where others can see them on web pages such as the PIHL and others as they progressed.

However, having watched any of those games I will also know which kid won important face-offs. Blocked shots, hard fore-check, positioning and all the other things nemesis mentioned are what create good hockey players and better teammates. I can leave the rink knowing his stats, if any but more importantly acknowledge the little things that few people notice.

Sort of like Lindsey Horan said about US soccer fans, this really does apply to a lot of hockey parents.

For the 14 and under crowd on here, don't get so caught up in the skills training as there is far too much of that. Find Coaches who will teach your kid how to play the game and they will be successful not only in hockey, but in life.

[Rewster]

7 hours ago, Hockeydad9130 said:

I actually figured this out last season too.  Was curious how many others found the "loophole".  It still kind of works but only shows the player name and games played.

It no longer works *because it ONLY shows the players’ names and games played—it does not show anything else at all.
It’s like for the PAHL to use Sports Engine, they have to include something in their website data. So, if you think about it…what’s the least bit of information that we can make public and still get away with “providing data” to Sports Engine and meet their criteria. That would be listing names and games played.
 

The PAHL made a conscious decision to close the loophole when it became public knowledge that the game sheets were available for everyone to see.

I’ll maintain my view on this. What was wrong with keeping the status quo? Nobody complained about it. Nobody was up in arms because Timmy had an extra assist; or Bobby was an Apple shy of a Playmaker Award—do they still give these awards out? Probably not, if nobody knows.
 

My whole contention was the PAHL is deliberately removing, or hiding information that was once public. It’s information that is obviously tabulated and recorded. It’s information that other Tier 2 competitive leagues make readily available. It’s not the professional level of analytics that we’re talking about. It’s just the basics of what hockey has always used when scoring. It’s the equivalent of removing the baseball scorekeeper and scoresheets.
 

[Saucey]

1 hour ago, dazedandconfused said:

People who are so fascinated and caught up in stats are almost 100% of the time the ones living vicariously through their kids because they NEVER accomplished anything in their athletic lifetime.

Or grandparents with nothing better to do! But watch their grandkids practice on Livebarn! #hockeyisgreat

[aaaahockey]

1 hour ago, Rewster said:

It no longer works *because it ONLY shows the players’ names and games played—it does not show anything else at all.
It’s like for the PAHL to use Sports Engine, they have to include something in their website data. So, if you think about it…what’s the least bit of information that we can make public and still get away with “providing data” to Sports Engine and meet their criteria. That would be listing names and games played.
 

The PAHL made a conscious decision to close the loophole when it became public knowledge that the game sheets were available for everyone to see.

I’ll maintain my view on this. What was wrong with keeping the status quo? Nobody complained about it. Nobody was up in arms because Timmy had an extra assist; or Bobby was an Apple shy of a Playmaker Award—do they still give these awards out? Probably not, if nobody knows.
 

My whole contention was the PAHL is deliberately removing, or hiding information that was once public. It’s information that is obviously tabulated and recorded. It’s information that other Tier 2 competitive leagues make readily available. It’s not the professional level of analytics that we’re talking about. It’s just the basics of what hockey has always used when scoring. It’s the equivalent of removing the baseball scorekeeper and scoresheets.
 

They do give the awards out but no one checks the scoresheets it's on the coaches/managers.  Also that's a USA hockey award not PAHL

[aaaahockey]

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/new-jersey-school-district-exploring-legal-action-controversial-basketball-game-decision.amp

Relevant to this conversation.  I can see a time in the near future where parents start sending in homemade videos to justify stat changes or game changes - who is going to review all that and is that what we really want to make amateur sports?

[Rewster]

20 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/new-jersey-school-district-exploring-legal-action-controversial-basketball-game-decision.amp

Relevant to this conversation.  I can see a time in the near future where parents start sending in homemade videos to justify stat changes or game changes - who is going to review all that and is that what we really want to make amateur sports?

I appreciate what you’re saying. I understand that there could potentially be a couple of unruly parents who complain. That’s true…but it’s already true. There’s already plenty of parents complaining to the coaches (and organizational board members) about playing time, line mates, position changes, defensive pairings, offensive attack schemes, breakouts, power play and PK theories, goaltending matchups, uniform color combinations, even injury severity scale and concussion evaluations, etc.

There’s also people complaining about how some rinks have their own referees that prefer to dish out their home cooking differently to their guests.  There’s always going to be complaints from parents. It’s always happened.

The question I have: What happens when we’re at the crossroads where the parents start complaining about how Fair Play Points are tabulated and the evidence of their existence?  Are we expecting everyone to accept the assumption that whomever is keeping track of the Fair Play Points number at every league game is going to be 100% accurate all season? How can you know that for certain? I’m not sure about everyone else, but, sometimes I like to count/add things up on my own. Without having someone tell me that it is what they say it is.

All I’m saying is that there’s got to be some transparency here. I’m not talking about the 10U, or 12U, or even the 14U age groups and publishing all of their statistics. I’m only suggesting that the way that the PAHL has been reactionary in removing game sheets (which also include the individual player and team penalty minutes) is counterintuitive to even what “Fair” means.

Remember, these become more important as the levels of play become more competitive and the talent pool of distinguishing characteristics thins out. It might be more difficult for a goal scorer to stand out during a AAA/Jr tryout that consists of 100 kids and only gets few shifts here and there with kids that he’s never played with. But, if he has the recent (and somewhat documented) history that shows he’s a goal-scorer (or playmaker, or whatever) from a competitive league…that will demonstrate more of an overall (and helpful picture) than the snapshot of a tryout where they’re trying to even figure out what position everyone is playing on their team.
 

My bottom line is: I hope that the PAHL does an internal evaluation and compare it with best practices that other leagues have been using for a while.

[PUCKCOVID19]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:15 AM, hockeyisgreat said:

Wow, who does that?  That's the kind of thing PAHL discipline rep should be looking at!  The Dad should never be allowed near the clock again!  Even if the Preds egged him on he needs to remain neutral!  Again that's part of why you hear about the homers at Belmont all the time.  Probably most peoples least favorite place to play!  But they do have good U18 & U16AA teams! So that probably adds to the frustration when you get beat at Belmont.

they did win it all at ice castle,Armstrong out coached and outplayed lebo and every team there. 

[Icebucket]

I think more than one thing can be true here.

Do teams typically get screwed over at Belmont? - Yes

Was Armstrong the strongest 18AA PAHL team by a good margin? - Yes

[CranjisMcBasketball]

Reminds me of mite cross ice when a team had an official team statistician listed on their roster below coaches and managers.