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The predator’s always had extra fee’s for Gary’s gym. they were at one time the “cheapest” “AAA” - advertised in the $2000 range. I could be mistaken, but I believe it was advertised just like that on their website. I remember a dad telling us by the time he paid coaches fees. Slush fund, yellow helmet-gloves-bag-jerseys, some crappy league fee (njphl or something ?), mandatory gym fee etc the cost was higher than what we had ever paid @ esmark. (PPE had the highest fees in our day) This parent compared it to buying a new car “I thought it would cost this but by the time we drove it off the lot it was much more with all the up selling and it lost its value!” I will say the season fees at PPE were justified even though it was highest we ever paid. Excellent coaching & real trainers. My son was on the ice 3 days a week, off ice 2-3 days a week. He practically lived at the rink. Excel didn’t exist yet. In comparison Esmark had a joke of an off ice program with 2 days a week practice. on the flip side, esmark’s travel was higher than anything we ever did at ppe, I’m sure much higher than the predators. Sorry to highjack this thread with fee’s but the current discussion of birth year teams just reminded me how few tier 1 teams there were 8-10 years ago in the states. Along with how good AA hockey was back then. I don’t think growth is the reason for the current landscape (not just in western pa) it’s people finding more ways to make money, younger parents with high hopes, truly uneducated parents falling for the sales pitch along with status parents. I also believe PPE helped destroy tier 2 locally with their bull$hit black teams. I remember watching the first year these black teams came out, it was a squirt major or peewee minor team I think (possibly 2004 BY I am trying to do the math real quick in my head as I type) I was dumbfounded how bad the players were, how bad they skated. I believe the coach was a dad with two kids on the team. It’s hard to remember, I could be wrong on the BY, I’ve seen to much youth hockey & it’s starting to run together anymore. Anyway, It went against everything PPE was trying to be. Looking back now it’s obvious why those black teams were created - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ taken from the type of parents I was speaking about above, to subsidize the pro practice rink. The same kind of parents today that will gladly pay the money for that extra A at predators, Icemen, Vengance & whomever else is calling themselves AAA these days. I am really showing my age, it’s probably time for me to depart this place. I’m thankful the majority of my kids playing days it wasn’t like it is today. If I could turn back the clocks, have the knowledge I have now, I would have tried to enjoy it more. Not worry about how well they play, how competitive they are etc. before you realize it, it’s all over. Sorry for ramblin’ on. Good luck to the younger parents, there are predators after your cash everywhere these days in the hockey world!

It sounds like you’ve just completed your first level cep and had your head pumped full from the good idea fairies from usa hockey. kids get better by playing the game. Not by constant whistles and stoppage of play. There is no proof that automatic offside has made anyone a better player. It’s simply there because it’s easier for newer and unskilled officials to make the call than managing the numbers of delayed off sides. Same with icing at all times. It makes it easier to just call an icing regardless of game context. Creativity on the penalty kill is about the last thing you want to be teaching young players. Positioning, reading passes etc on the other hand…

In theory, sunshine, rainbows and magical skills. In reality just one whistle after another, no flow and even less continuous play.

Sure. Keep in mind last year was an odd year due to Covid. So they skipped placement games. we were listed as A minor gold. Our coach looked at our roster and where kids were prior year and thought PAHL was way off. Our team loaded a ton of scrimmages against PAHl teams one to 2 divisions above us. Because PA was closed we bought ice in Ohio. Our team outshot and out scored opponents. In the end the team moved up to A Major white. Scoresheets and evals were sent to PAHl for consideration They played a little over 50 games between tournaments and PAHL. In PAHL they finished around the .500 mark. Games were very competitive and didnt have any blowouts.

Frankly, it doesn't make a difference to me if I drive two hours or four hours. If you are a decent AA team you can't just go to any tournament. You have to be picky. And you better schedule some independent games. 2 games per team at home. Guessing 700 a game. So, 1400 for a pair of games. Do this 3-5 times. Your regular PAHL team isn't doing this. To those that complain about the travel, you completely ignore that most/all of the parents enjoy it. And the parents that travel a lot are "hockey rich". Which is more wealthy than the average rich family. The other thing about playing a challenging schedule as a AA without travel is that a lot of ice is required. Looking at SHAHA 09, they are hosting teams but had to rent ice from Rostraver. Say you want to bring in 4 teams and offer every team 4 games, that is a lot of ice. Most teams that travel for independent games travel for a minimum of 2 but prefer 4 if it is

The automatic offsides is the stupidest thing in all of hockey.

one thing WE can all agree on is NONE of theirs BY teams are no where close to being a aaa team. mediocre at best aa teams. King Ralph is laughing all the way to the bank

There is a petition going around asking USA Hockey to undo the latest rule changes for youth hockey, specifically automatic offsides, icing on the penalty kill, and body checking rule change. Everyone's opinion will be different. In my case, I can live with the icing and body contact changes, but the automatic offsides does not compute. Anyone care to defend or debate the merits of the change? Here's the petition. Petition · Fixing USA Hockey's rules. · Change.org

A 10u team in A minor protested up successfully to A major last year. They finished in the upper half of their division.

Finally worked a bunch of games this weekend. Worked every age group, mostly T1. Surprising results: 1. The icing rule has not stopped anyone from simply icing the puck on the power play. 2. The offside rule is not that big a deal. The good teams are regrouping back through their D. Once in a while there is a whistle off a bad bounce, etc. 3. The competitive contact rule has led to more contact off the puck. Many of the T1 teams were using a lot of man-to-man D, with position battles everywhere. Was not expecting this at all. Interested to see how this goes over the next few weeks. Don't think it's time to reject the changes just yet. Need another 4-6 weeks to see what happens. Same reaction occurred when the Standard of Play was first introduced and all the obstruction penalties were added.

More continuous play actually. You really think dumping and chasing is skilled hockey with fluid play? That’s the easiest play for the unskilled and robotic player. Look at all those players making it to the next level because they can shove the puck up the boards constantly and dump and chase! So much skill!

It’s because kids are rushing things and wilt under pressure and panic and just get rid of the puck. This change will force the issue. We’ll have more skilled players and better decision makers.

One whistle after another because kids will be continuously offsides? Challenge the kids to make decisions and maintain possession. They may surprise you. Kids are adaptable. We’ll develop players better without them all blasting it into the zone along the boards during regroups. It takes more creativity and skill to play with the new rules. I’m not sure that’s even debatable.

You are correct. We had to book ice out of town and ask parents to pay ice rental money to get games in otherwise we would have been A minor gold and undefeated. The kids obviously matured and learned more in the correct division

Agreed, offsides is ridiculous.

Unless the SHAHA 09 team is able to play the Pens or Vengeance 09 teams (and no, they aren’t as strong as those two teams), they aren’t going to find competitive games locally. They may lose a game in AA PAHL this year, but they’ll outshoot their opponents 2-1 just about every game. I actually like how they are structuring things. They are playing PAHL AA (unlike Preds 09 who aren’t as strong) and supplementing with a lot of independent games. Cleveland Barons, Team Ohio, etc. It would be bizarre for that team not to travel this year. To me this is how things should work. Don’t go independent until you absolutely dominate PAHL AA. Until then, it just hurts PAHL hockey for teams to go independent.

Agree 100% that the automatic offsides is an absurd rule that needs to go away immediately.

It's great to have your wisdom and opinions here! You are helping a lot of people here from your experience. We may not always agree but what you have to say is always worth reading. Thanks and I hope you keep adding from your experiences.

Well, SHAHA 09 is peewee. I think it is ridiculous to travel so far at such young ages, worrying about playing teams. I also suspect they can find games locally. Tournaments are an expensive way to develop, add in extensive travel and that is worse.

The only teams that should be traveling this far to find competitive games are legit Tier 1 teams!

I don't disagree with what you said here, except that it's a matter of perspective. Whether a tournament is worth attending is a matter of what your goals are. I have found that going out of town for a tournament is a nice team building thing, and the kids (and the parents) generally have a great time. They're not a great way to find competitive games because they're hit and miss on that, and as we noted, you often end up playing someone you could have played at home. In other words, you don't go to a tournament as part of building your national bound or AAA resume. That's true. But there are maybe some other good reasons to go to them, for some teams. If my kids were on one of those "AAA" or "AA" teams our area seems to have such an abundance of on paper, I'd agree. They play so many games on those teams that adding a tournament seems silly.

That requires a good team manager/head coach who knows what they are doing or cares. Lol. I hear ya, but too many of those tournaments jerk you around. There are some good ones.

A team's manager or head coach needs to contact the tournament director prior to registering and ask for a list of participating teams in whatever division they plan on entering. Most will give you this info and then decide based off the other teams that are participating. If the tournament is unwilling to do this, I would suggest moving on to something different, there's enough to go around. No reason to go to NY or VA to play teams that are 20 minutes down the road.

For my youngest specifically I'm definitely in this boat. This will be his 5th year of mites and I am sick of playing the same teams over and over again. Doing a bunch of AAU full ice tournaments and games this year to get some variety and a bit more a challenge. I am without a doubt on the fence about what to do next year for squirts. This wasn't an issue for my oldest as he played A minor for squirts and peewees, but still it got annoying seeing the same teams coached by the same dads at the same rinks with the same crappy refs over and over again.

My initial reaction to the automatic offsides change is positive. Anything that forces possession and control of the puck at all costs is a good thing. With this new rule kids are going to have to make quicker decisions, be more deceptive with the puck, and maintain possession by passing. In youth hockey there is so much play along the boards and so much dumping and chasing. It’s borderline gross to watch. I think this change could help unleash and develop skill with our kids. But this change certainly goes against the old school “dump and chase” and parents and coaches screaming “use the boards” mentality. Do you want old school hockey or do you want to develop puck skills? That’s what this comes down to.