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AAA Updates?


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There is no 'automatic AA'. A team might get initially placed in AA because of the performance the year before and the makeup of that team. Placement games, as well as any other data a team wants considered, can move that team up or down. Last year teams played wherever they declared due to Covid.

In some years, there are AA divisions with teams that are filled with players and teams that aren't AA quality some years, due to low birth years and/or the continued exit of AA players to play independent. Also relentless recruiting of some coaches to make a powerhouse team. You can sometimes draw a line right down the middle of a AA division in terms of competitiveness.

I actually think PAHL does a generally good job at creating divisions.

 

 

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On 9/2/2021 at 2:09 PM, Danner27 said:

I can’t tell you how many times over the years I’ve seen big / tall kids have a nice clean hit but get called for roughing, boarding etc (Pahl, varsity & tier 1). All the while smaller kids get away with flying elbows. I don’t think this is any sort of league or level of play issue, it’s the refs & usa hockey. 
 

my niece is playing Pahl, her father just explained the fpp system to me, that wasn’t around when my kids were in Pahl. I understand what they are trying to do with it but execution is awful. I was also informed that if a player gets four minor penalties in a game they get suspended a game. This rule is even worse than the fpp point IMO. What does this serve ? We are talking about minor penalties - tripping, hooking etc there already is an advantage given for these non violent and non contact penalties called the POWER PLAY.  

Simple solution:

change the fpp criteria. Any 5 min major, two 10 min misconducts or any game or match penalty by any player, coach or created by a spectator loses the point. 
 

To me that is reasonable. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 8/31/2021 at 7:30 PM, Big_Clapper21 said:

Does anyone else besides me think that the AAA scene is a money grab?

PPE is the only true AAA Team in my opinion. 
 

imagine if these teams ( icemen, vengeance, Esmark) competed more locally. There would be some great hockey games. Teams are driving 5+ hours away to be AAA. Just parents chasing status in my opinion. PPE isn’t getting kids to the next level, so I can’t imagine a chain smoking guy who barely speaks English out of New Ken is going to do it either.  Just trying to get the conversation rolling again.

I do believe that Esmark had 8 kids tendered in the NAHL from last season for this season.  Esmark is the only other organization besides Pens Elite that actually has a proven track record of moving kids to the next level.  You can easily go to their website and see where the kids got tendered.  So not sure why you are saying that Esmark doesn't move kids to the next level?

Though, I do agree that it would be great to see Icemen, Vengeance, and Esmark play each other.  Though, I believe the long term goal is to end the season with a top 30, possibly top 40, ranking so that kids want to come to the organization.   Unfortunately, according to the rankings released today (speaking about the 07 BY), Esmark at 46th would get nothing out of playing Vengeance, ranked at 89th, or the Icemen ranked 66th in Tier II. That's one of the problems with these rankings, if your ranked low no upper ranked team will play you.  Seems like a tough hill to climb for an organization.

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14 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

Icemen seems to be a landing pad for the disgruntled, at least more so than Vengeance. I can't see where they'd compete with Esmark. 

I agree, this year I do not think neither the Vengeance or Icemen would be able to compete against the Esmark team.  I was just addressing Big_Clapper21 in regards to his statement about local teams playing each other.  It would be great to see those games happen but the way the ranking system is structured I am assuming Esmark would never play those teams because beating them would do nothing for their ranking.  So I would assume Esmark would never take the chance to play those teams.  Just like Pen Elite would never take the chance and play Esmark.; to much to lose and nothing to gain.

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On 9/29/2021 at 9:27 AM, 3 Boys said:

You can easily go to their website and see where the kids got tendered.  So not sure why you are saying that Esmark doesn't move kids to the next level?

And in another week, you'll be be able to go to those teams websites which tendered each of them and see that most if not all will have been cut and looking for a place to play.

A Tender doesn't mean anything other than you don't have to pay to tryout. EVERY team in the NAHL is required to tender a specified number of NAPHL players each season. I don't know what that number is but if you look at the quality of most of the other teams in the NAPHL, it's no surprise that Esmark gets a lot of those tenders for their players. They consistently have of the top teams in the 18U age group each season.

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2 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

And in another week, you'll be be able to go to those teams websites which tendered each of them and see that most if not all will have been cut and looking for a place to play.

A Tender doesn't mean anything other than you don't have to pay to tryout. EVERY team in the NAHL is required to tender a specified number of NAPHL players each season. I don't know what that number is but if you look at the quality of most of the other teams in the NAPHL, it's no surprise that Esmark gets a lot of those tenders for their players. They consistently have of the top teams in the 18U age group each season.

very true ive said it before.  Esmark acts all high and mighty with their tenders.... in the last 5-6 seasons 2 yes 2 made nahl teams a goalie and a forward who now has a D1 scholarship!!!!! every other one never sniffed the roster at all and was cut in camp. So those tenders really mean nothing 

 

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4 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

And in another week, you'll be be able to go to those teams websites which tendered each of them and see that most if not all will have been cut and looking for a place to play.

A Tender doesn't mean anything other than you don't have to pay to tryout. EVERY team in the NAHL is required to tender a specified number of NAPHL players each season. I don't know what that number is but if you look at the quality of most of the other teams in the NAPHL, it's no surprise that Esmark gets a lot of those tenders for their players. They consistently have of the top teams in the 18U age group each season.

I swear we covered this in a different thread. I don’t feel like regurgitating the info again. 

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On 9/30/2021 at 7:26 PM, sadday4hockey said:

And in another week, you'll be be able to go to those teams websites which tendered each of them and see that most if not all will have been cut and looking for a place to play.

A Tender doesn't mean anything other than you don't have to pay to tryout. EVERY team in the NAHL is required to tender a specified number of NAPHL players each season. I don't know what that number is but if you look at the quality of most of the other teams in the NAPHL, it's no surprise that Esmark gets a lot of those tenders for their players. They consistently have of the top teams in the 18U age group each season.

Of course it means nothing, just like it means nothing for any player from any organization other than Esmark as well.  At least Esmark gets kids noticed and a chance at junior teams.  The main point was you CANNOT say that about any other organization in Pittsburgh except for ESMARK and PENS ELITE.   

Obviously, as with any organization, there seems to be some bitterness towards Esmark from a you and others here.  But the fact remains, Esmark and Pen Elite are the only 2 organizations within the Pittsburgh area that gives kids a chance for the next level. 

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On 9/30/2021 at 7:30 PM, PUCKCOVID19 said:

very true ive said it before.  Esmark acts all high and mighty with their tenders.... in the last 5-6 seasons 2 yes 2 made nahl teams a goalie and a forward who now has a D1 scholarship!!!!! every other one never sniffed the roster at all and was cut in camp. So those tenders really mean nothing 

 

How many kids got moved on from Mt, Lebo, Icemen, Vengeance, and Preds?  I believe the Preds possibly may have one kid that they were able to get noticed and moved on.  You are missing the point.  The point is that playing for Esmark, if you can't make the Pens, is the only other organization in Pittsburgh area that you will have a chance to move on.  So actually Tenders do mean something because if you don't get tendered your chances to advance is even less to none.

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30 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

Once you get the tender in the first place is the first obstacle. After that, performingbto the required level is up to the player. 

Exactly!! And those players aren't at that level because those "tenders" are handed out like Halloween candy to NAPHL players. That league is weak. At best.

 

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5 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Once you get the tender in the first place is the first obstacle. After that, performingbto the required level is up to the player. 

tender means nothing but the team owns your rights now.....and you get an invite to main camp ( which about .01 of remark kids actually make). facts are facts dont go by the smoke screen Yuri or Dave tell you.... do some DD and you will see for your self 

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5 hours ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

tender means nothing but the team owns your rights now.....and you get an invite to main camp ( which about .01 of remark kids actually make). facts are facts dont go by the smoke screen Yuri or Dave tell you.... do some DD and you will see for your self 

This smoke screen you speak of, the ultimate goal for a local/any kid playing hockey is to make it to the NHL am I right? The Pens Elite and all of their glory have exactly 000000 kids drafted into the NHL while you talk down on Esmark who has had at least 1 kid drafted in the last 3yrs and I think a total of 2 over the time that the Pens Elite have been an organization. All the Pens Elite do is ride the coattails of the accomplishments of the Pittsburgh Hornets organization. They have all of those posters in their hallways of Pittsburgh kids yet NONE of them have actually played for the organization. In what will be what year 9 for Pens their best chance of a kid getting a sniff at being drafted out of their organization is a 2005. Which means it will be at least 2 more years MAYBE. 

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40 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

This smoke screen you speak of, the ultimate goal for a local/any kid playing hockey is to make it to the NHL am I right? The Pens Elite and all of their glory have exactly 000000 kids drafted into the NHL while you talk down on Esmark who has had at least 1 kid drafted in the last 3yrs and I think a total of 2 over the time that the Pens Elite have been an organization. All the Pens Elite do is ride the coattails of the accomplishments of the Pittsburgh Hornets organization. They have all of those posters in their hallways of Pittsburgh kids yet NONE of them have actually played for the organization. In what will be what year 9 for Pens their best chance of a kid getting a sniff at being drafted out of their organization is a 2005. Which means it will be at least 2 more years MAYBE. 

While I somewhat agree, PPE will have a 2002 & 2003 drafted into the NHL pretty soon. Both kids were tossed aside, PPE had nothing to do with their success.

with that said, PPE will start to see other kids of theirs drafted from the 2002-2004 BY alone. I can think of 5 kids excluding the two I mentioned above.

To clarify to someone - getting tendered by a junior team does not mean they own your rights. It’s just a ticket to main camp for the coming season. 
 

 

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53 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

While I somewhat agree, PPE will have a 2002 & 2003 drafted into the NHL pretty soon. Both kids were tossed aside, PPE had nothing to do with their success.

with that said, PPE will start to see other kids of theirs drafted from the 2002-2004 BY alone. I can think of 5 kids excluding the two I mentioned above.

To clarify to someone - getting tendered by a junior team does not mean they own your rights. It’s just a ticket to main camp for the coming season. 
 

 

It’s a little more than that and something that should not be taken lightly.  Plenty of eager souls signed tenders and ended up regretting it because it limits the potential for other teams to pursue them  

 

http://navigatingjuniorhockey.blogspot.com/p/jr-hockey-tenders-drafts.html

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What is a tender? 
A tender is a contract, of sorts, a player signs announcing his intentions to play for that particular NAHL team and that NAHL team only. Once a player signs a tender with an NAHL team, his playing rights belong to that team within the NAHL and he may not be recruited by any other NAHL team. Each team is granted ten (10) tenders - plus or minus any trades - which become active on Nov. 1. Tendered players are not eligible for the NAHL draft.

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Correct, but it’s only for the current season (It was still that way a few years ago). After the player doesn’t make the team they can still play in other junior leagues. Thus the reason old folks like myself still refer to tenders as a ticket to main camp. Does anyone have access to a current nahl tender contract ? I’d be curious to see how they look today. 
 

the ncdc / usphl is another animal.  I know a player who’s family had to buy his way out of an ncdc contract.  If you’ve ever seen an ncdc contract, you wouldn’t let your kid sign It with out a 100% guarantee in writing your kid will be on the team, playing, and thats not going to happen. You forfeit your rights to any litigation, all matters are decided by the usphl and the usphl only in Boston. 

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28 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Correct, but it’s only for the current season (It was still that way a few years ago). After the player doesn’t make the team they can still play in other junior leagues. Thus the reason old folks like myself still refer to tenders as a ticket to main camp. Does anyone have access to a current nahl tender contract ? I’d be curious to see how they look today. 
 

the ncdc / usphl is another animal.  I know a player who’s family had to buy his way out of an ncdc contract.  If you’ve ever seen an ncdc contract, you wouldn’t let your kid sign It with out a 100% guarantee in writing your kid will be on the team, playing, and thats not going to happen. You forfeit your rights to any litigation, all matters are decided by the usphl and the usphl only in Boston. 

ncdc isnt pay to play, maybe the mentioned player was on a premier team then paying yes button ncdc

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20 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Exactly!! And those players aren't at that level because those "tenders" are handed out like Halloween candy to NAPHL players. That league is weak. At best.

 

So this is weak:

Over the course of the last six seasons, 1,500+ NAHL players have made NCAA commitments and 32 have been drafted into the NHL.  So Tier II Juniors is weak?
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48 minutes ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

ncdc isnt pay to play, maybe the mentioned player was on a premier team then paying yes button ncdc

Missing the point. He signed an ncdc contract. Decided to play in a different league. The Usphl sent him a buyout bill. There wasn’t a damn thing the family could do about it per the contract that was signed. 

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2 hours ago, 3 Boys said:

So this is weak:

Over the course of the last six seasons, 1,500+ NAHL players have made NCAA commitments and 32 have been drafted into the NHL.  So Tier II Juniors is weak?

I don’t think he’s saying tier 2 juniors is weak, he’s saying the naphl is weak. For the most part it is. 
 

not to start a new topic, how many of those 1,500 nahl players over the past 6 years are playing ncaa d1 ? I don’t count ncaa d3 that’s an entirely different avenue. If you have the money, your kid can make ncaa d3 hockey.  On average, It’s usually the top 2 or so players on a nahl team that make it to ncaa d1. 

the nahl is a good league, but let’s be real, it’s not the ushl, or on par with some of the Canadian tier 2 leagues.  If I can manage to find it / still have the email - I had a spread sheet sent to me 2-3 years ago that listed every ncaa d1 player, where they came from. I don’t recall  the exact numbers but the ncdc was abysmal with something like 3-4 kids for this given year, the nahl was mid-ish . The majority of the players came out of the ushl, bchl, etc. this is not a shot at at the nahl in anyway, just pointing out how hard it is to become a ncca d1 hockey player, even with the small d1 schools out there.  
 

 

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2 hours ago, Danner27 said:

I don’t think he’s saying tier 2 juniors is weak, he’s saying the naphl is weak. For the most part it is. 
 

not to start a new topic, how many of those 1,500 nahl players over the past 6 years are playing ncaa d1 ? I don’t count ncaa d3 that’s an entirely different avenue. If you have the money, your kid can make ncaa d3 hockey.  On average, It’s usually the top 2 or so players on a nahl team that make it to ncaa d1. 

the nahl is a good league, but let’s be real, it’s not the ushl, or on par with some of the Canadian tier 2 leagues.  If I can manage to find it / still have the email - I had a spread sheet sent to me 2-3 years ago that listed every ncaa d1 player, where they came from. I don’t recall  the exact numbers but the ncdc was abysmal with something like 3-4 kids for this given year, the nahl was mid-ish . The majority of the players came out of the ushl, bchl, etc. this is not a shot at at the nahl in anyway, just pointing out how hard it is to become a ncca d1 hockey player, even with the small d1 schools out there.  
 

 

NAHL is a fantastic league. NAPHL and the NA3 are terrible hockey, those 2 leagues fund the NAHL.

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