New Hockey Parent ?

[Fosta812]

Hi all, I stumbled across this forum researching youth hockey. My son loves the sport and as a parent that has never played hockey, I am clueless. My son is 7 years old. He started skating at 5 years old and is in the advanced 8u mite development at upmc rink. The question I have is where does he go on to after mite development? It seems like upmc only has Lil 66ers as an option and that looks like a difficult team to make. Would we have to change rinks and find somewhere else to play after mite?

 

 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

North Pittsburgh. RMU. Mt. Lebanon.

Edited January 2 by Happy Hockey Fan

[ice is cold]

2 hours ago, Fosta812 said:

Hi all, I stumbled across this forum researching youth hockey. My son loves the sport and as a parent that has never played hockey, I am clueless. My son is 7 years old. He started skating at 5 years old and is in the advanced 8u mite development at upmc rink. The question I have is where does he go on to after mite development? It seems like upmc only has Lil 66ers as an option and that looks like a difficult team to make. Would we have to change rinks and find somewhere else to play after mite?

 

 

The closest rink to your  house, best cost and a place you feel welcomed... and then reevaluate at u14/u15. 

[aaaahockey]

Run while you have a chance and play another sport!

[forbin]

7 hours ago, ice is cold said:

The closest rink to your  house, best cost and a place you feel welcomed... and then reevaluate at u14/u15. 

 

This is the correct answer. Assuming you live in/near cranberry your best options would likely be North Pittsburgh who play out of Baierl, or Yetis who play out of Frozen Pond. Both have good programs.

Wouldn’t hurt to try out for 66ers for his final year of mites if that’s something you’re interested in.

Just understand that as he gets older, hockey is basically like having another full time job that doesn’t pay. It’s a massive time commitment and a huge investment. If your son continues to play at a higher level you will never be home on weekends and most weeknights your dinner time will be 9pm. You will put thousands of miles on your car, spend way too much at the drive through, and alter your families schedule around hockey. As cliche as it is to say, it really is a lifestyle.

Also understand that your son will likely never play professional hockey, or even collegiate hockey, and that if he’s lucky and still loves the game later in life he will get to play beer league at 11pm on a Tuesday. 
It is 100% worth it if you ask me. Just don’t chase the extra A and always make sure it’s your son driving the train. 

[Wes]

this

3 hours ago, forbin said:

Just understand that as he gets older, hockey is basically like having another full time job that doesn’t pay. It’s a massive time commitment and a huge investment. If your son continues to play at a higher level you will never be home on weekends and most weeknights your dinner time will be 9pm. You will put thousands of miles on your car, spend way too much at the drive through, and alter your families schedule around hockey. As cliche as it is to say, it really is a lifestyle.

This pretty much sums up our experience from 2010-2020 with 2 kids playing AA/AAA hockey who both were very good players.  Never home, bank account drained, cars with 170,000 miles on them. Neither child playing college hockey. Son plays beer league.

Edited January 2 by Wes

[BACKCHECKING]

4 hours ago, forbin said:

This is the correct answer. Assuming you live in/near cranberry your best options would likely be North Pittsburgh who play out of Baierl, or Yetis who play out of Frozen Pond. Both have good programs.

Wouldn’t hurt to try out for 66ers for his final year of mites if that’s something you’re interested in.

Just understand that as he gets older, hockey is basically like having another full time job that doesn’t pay. It’s a massive time commitment and a huge investment. If your son continues to play at a higher level you will never be home on weekends and most weeknights your dinner time will be 9pm. You will put thousands of miles on your car, spend way too much at the drive through, and alter your families schedule around hockey. As cliche as it is to say, it really is a lifestyle.

Also understand that your son will likely never play professional hockey, or even collegiate hockey, and that if he’s lucky and still loves the game later in life he will get to play beer league at 11pm on a Tuesday. 
It is 100% worth it if you ask me. Just don’t chase the extra A and always make sure it’s your son driving the train. 

Spot on. I would also add that you shouldn’t worry about all the extra spring and summer tournaments that everyone else is doing and spend your money on a private skating coach. Your son will be better off with skating lessons and taking him to stick times as often as you can.

[YardSale]

29 minutes ago, BACKCHECKING said:

Spot on. I would also add that you shouldn’t worry about all the extra spring and summer tournaments that everyone else is doing and spend your money on a private skating coach. Your son will be better off with skating lessons and taking him to stick times as often as you can.

Better yet, spend you off-season time on soccer, lax, swimming, etc.

[fafa fohi]

NP and RMU have the best youth development programs in the area, hands down.  Both serve as feeder programs to Foxes and Wildcats travel teams and both orgs can field as many as six Squirt U10 teams.  If the rinks are near you then you can’t go wrong with either one.  

[Fosta812]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the response and all the info. He loves the sport and is having fun with it. It just happens to be a sport I know nothing about. 

[sadday4hockey]

3 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

NP and RMU have the best youth development programs in the area, hands down.

Not sure I agree with this. They both definitely have the most participants but they also both do a lot of cattle-herding as they push the limits of too many players on the ice which can limit reps and stunt improvement.

[Fosta812]

1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

Not sure I agree with this. They both definitely have the most participants but they also both do a lot of cattle-herding as they push the limits of too many players on the ice which can limit reps and stunt improvement.

In your opinion, what is the best organization for youth development in the area then?

[nemesis8679]

5 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Not sure I agree with this. They both definitely have the most participants but they also both do a lot of cattle-herding as they push the limits of too many players on the ice which can limit reps and stunt improvement.

Foxes in particular have really fallen off.

And if you want to get on a good team at North Pittsburgh, you better be on a team there from the beginning. 

 

At both orgs, it can be easy to get lost in the shuffle.

 

 

[Wes]

1 hour ago, nemesis8679 said:

And if you want to get on a good team at North Pittsburgh, you better be on a team there from the beginning. 

😁

[Wes]

The only org my son played on, and we felt the tryouts were fair and unbiased (for the most part LOL), was with Allegheny in the PRE-BlackBear days.  They would bring in outside evaluators and grade the players based on what they saw, not by how many years they played for Allegheny.

[nemesis8679]

1 hour ago, Wes said:

The only org my son played on, and we felt the tryouts were fair and unbiased (for the most part LOL), was with Allegheny in the PRE-BlackBear days.  They would bring in outside evaluators and grade the players based on what they saw, not by how many years they played for Allegheny.

 

I know there's pros and cons to having outside evaluators, but I believe the pros far outweigh the cons. 

I wonder if any orgs still do it that way, and which ones? 

[Lifelongbender]

10 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

 

I know there's pros and cons to having outside evaluators, but I believe the pros far outweigh the cons. 

I wonder if any orgs still do it that way, and which ones? 

The pros definitely outweigh the cons.

I know that Westmoreland uses both internal and outside evaluators.

[Loach]

I think I said this before, but based on personal experience, you do need both internal and outside evaluators. You still need the head coach to make the final call, but good for that person to have data to make the decision that comes from both assistants and independent evaluators. You need to have a fair and competent head coach who has a good group around him to hold him accountable. I've seen tryouts that lean too heavily on independent evaluations miss out on key players who are great contributors during the prior season but don't show well in the individual-oriented tryouts.

[Wildcat]

20 minutes ago, Loach said:

I think I said this before, but based on personal experience, you do need both internal and outside evaluators. You still need the head coach to make the final call, but good for that person to have data to make the decision that comes from both assistants and independent evaluators. You need to have a fair and competent head coach who has a good group around him to hold him accountable. I've seen tryouts that lean too heavily on independent evaluations miss out on key players who are great contributors during the prior season but don't show well in the individual-oriented tryouts.

And at the same time, a kid could come in and wow the evaluators but then the coach talks to people who know him or the family and he's a total headcase.

[fafa fohi]

22 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Not sure I agree with this. They both definitely have the most participants but they also both do a lot of cattle-herding as they push the limits of too many players on the ice which can limit reps and stunt improvement.

The most popular programs get the most kids.  The Yeti ( formerly known as Butler Valley ) used to be a huge player in this space and now are a shell of what they had. But both NP and RMU have a cap and limit the number of kids that participate in their mite programs.  They close registrations once they hit that cap - I know that for a fact.

[ice is cold]

1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

The most popular programs get the most kids.  The Yeti ( formerly known as Butler Valley ) used to be a huge player in this space and now are a shell of what they had. But both NP and RMU have a cap and limit the number of kids that participate in their mite programs.  They close registrations once they hit that cap - I know that for a fact.

I would say location plays a huge role when starting at a younger level. 

Edited January 3 by ice is cold

[aaaahockey]

SHAHA also caps their mite program. I know the Hornets have shrunk in recent years. 

[HSFBLJ]

My advice, let you player take the lead.  Sign him up to play at North Pittsburgh not the Frozen Pond.  North Pittsburgh just has a better program top to bottom, I'm not bashing the pond.  If your son is the best player on the ice consistently and he wants to move on to bigger and better than take him to the PPE and see what happens.  

Loving the sport is one thing, having the talent to play at a high level is another.  If your thinking the little 66ers is tough to make go the PPE tryouts for 14-16U.  Go to an Esmark tryout as well.  Good teams have large numbers at tryout time.  I don't know your financial situation but at high level AAA 14U and up plan to spend $5-10K at minimum, AA $3-5k.  Multiply that out from age 7.  You also have high school hockey to think about probably another $1500-$2k.  

Set some expectations for your family and for your son now.  Some of these folks may come off as a bit brash but they have been there and done that.  At the end of the day if cost isn't an option, chase the dream my friend.  

I carried my sons hockey bag to his first game and his last.  I'll never forget those times.  In the end its only money, you don't take it with you.

[James Gatz]

Let's take a step back and have an overview of the playing options for someone in Mites (8U) and Squirts (10U).  Broadly speaking, there are three options.  The first are in-house programs.  These are programs with larger groups of kids who play on teams in a house league.  All of their practices and games will be in the same facility.  The mite program at Lemieux is an example.  In the North, RMU and Baierl (North Pittsburgh) have house programs for both Mites and Squirts.  Next is playing on a PAHL team.  Some would call this travel hockey, but think of it more as travel lite because the league, the PAHL (Pittsburgh Amateur Hockey League) is comprised of mostly local teams.  The furthest teams are Morgantown to the South, Erie to the North, Youngstown to the West, and State College to the East.  You likely would not have a team from all four outposts in a division.  The majority of your travel is within the Pittsburgh metro area.  Finally, there are the teams that play an independent schedule.  They have the most travel and tend to be the higher end/more competitive teams though that is open to debate.  Not trying to start one here.

The amount of practices each week, amount of additional off-ice training, and commitment expectations (and costs) go up from House to Independents.  There are some House options for the Squirts, but beyond 10U, you will be looking at a PAHL or independent scenario most likely, though at those ages, school options start to enter the picture. 

Once you decide the category in which you want to play, you can start evaluating the different programs within each category.  For example, you will see some programs, like the Yetis, play their Mites in PAHL.  Most of North Pittsburgh Mites play in-house.  Both are good experiences.  As others have said, for Mites and Squirts, don't discount rink proximity.  Driving another 45 minutes each way past a convenient rink may not add any value to your experience.  One consistent thing I see with the top end mite players is the amount of supplemental skating they do.  You can tell the kids that practice 2 times a week from those that do some other skating training in addition to their team practices.  There are a host of supplemental training options out there.  

Edited January 17 by James Gatz

[Oighir]

Remember, it's all about your child. Find a fun environment that focuses on developing enjoyment for the game and puts them in a position to succeed at a localized level. Do not drain your bank account for a youth sport. The extra "A" is the worst return on investment imaginable in youth sports.  Talk to your child and know what brings them joy in the game and why they like a particular program. Most of the time, it's their friends that are why they have fun.  You will eventually be faced with predatory organizations that make promises and insinuations that they can give your child an edge. The real question is, what edge are you looking for? Schools? Pros? Do not have ideations of cheering your son or daughter from the press box at PPG. Just enjoy the fact they get to play the game and help them along. 

Another user mentioned 14u/16u as when you can safely determine if an investment is needed. That's fair, and your wallet will thank you.

Never lose sight of the fact that it isn't about you--it's about your child and what is best for them. If you enjoy reading, I recommend Mark Hyman's Until it Hurts. It's high-level, focusing on youth baseball, but the point is the same. These are children and not mini-professionals. 

As far as a program, start with the closest rink and go from there. See where his friends are and where brings him the most joy.