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22 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Really? Really?

Why not just use your real name on here Baghdad Bob?

Or is Joseph Goebels?

Talk about ministry of propaganda and misinformation!!

 

It’s wild how I am basically calling for the abolishment of the current PPE format,  and for some PPE individuals there to take their ‘talents’ back where they came from.  Still waiting for one of their employees,  or sympathizers to answer me on what their results are with moving kids on to higher levels of hockey…  Yet I am running propaganda and misinformation in their favor.

Just calling it like it is here in this conversation. That program is currently a joke,  and a bad one at that___ but they’re aren’t fucking pulling strings at USA hockey. Nor were they ever at the mid am camp to evaluate. 

Again, an 07 D from Esmark,  who was cut by PPE made the final camp.  
 

You should be grateful someone like myself, or Danner is around to ‘tell it like it is’.  You PAHL parents, Esmark parents and Vengeance parents get so wrapped up in blind rage toward PPE,  and how they’re seemingly always kaniving on behalf of their players__ when in reality,  you are giving these people entirely too much credit.   They aren’t the big scary machine you think they are,  those of us who have seen what it is,  behind the scenes know it as a house of cards. 
 

Propped up by the mindless parents who want PPE decals on the back of their vehicles so they can feel superior, never a thought about if their kid will actually be nurtured there.  And also by schizos outside PPE who hang out in local rinks with other parents gossiping about the  PPE boogeyman.  You people play in to their hands.  
 

All of the conspiracies and fairytales about what some of those guys are capable of are just that.  They are dime a dozen youth hockey people,  for better or worse.  In this case mostly worse.  Again,  they don’t give a single shit about what kids do outside of PPE,  one guy in particular is probably offended that mid am process even exist as it takes 2-3 weeks out of the time he could have paying ‘customers’ at the rink.

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33 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

It’s wild how I am basically calling for the abolishment of the current PPE format,  and for some PPE individuals there to take their ‘talents’ back where they came from.  Still waiting for one of their employees,  or sympathizers to answer me on what their results are with moving kids on to higher levels of hockey…  Yet I am running propaganda and misinformation in their favor.

Just calling it like it is here in this conversation. That program is currently a joke,  and a bad one at that___ but they’re aren’t fucking pulling strings at USA hockey. Nor were they ever at the mid am camp to evaluate. 

Again, an 07 D from Esmark,  who was cut by PPE made the final camp.  
 

You should be grateful someone like myself, or Danner is around to ‘tell it like it is’.  You PAHL parents, Esmark parents and Vengeance parents get so wrapped up in blind rage toward PPE,  and how they’re seemingly always kaniving on behalf of their players__ when in reality,  you are giving these people entirely too much credit.   They aren’t the big scary machine you think they are,  those of us who have seen what it is,  behind the scenes know it as a house of cards. 
 

Propped up by the mindless parents who want PPE decals on the back of their vehicles so they can feel superior, never a thought about if their kid will actually be nurtured there.  And also by schizos outside PPE who hang out in local rinks with other parents and gossiping about the  PPE boogeyman.  You people play in to their hands. 

Well said. Those who do not want to hear the truth will hate on your for this post and those who know the facts will agree. 

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You know,  instead of checking under your bed at night for a Penguin__ why don’t you start gossiping some truth about how bad PPE is at what they do.  Meaning the results they get with players who aren’t connected, or just flat out 1% talent. 

Talk so much that the younger kids parents start to really inquire and look at the facts.  Point out the turn over on all the teams bantam and above.  Why do kids from outside come here and end up leaving?  Why are locals leaving?  Why is there so much turnover with all parties,  outside kids and locals?  Why is most of the local talent at the 08 BY playing at Vengeance (outside of having a great coach).  Why is there not a single 06’ Pittsburgh kid on the 06’ PPE.  Why did half the 07’ team walk away?  
 

All it will take is two consecutive birthyears of squirt parents opting out of PPE,  not listening to the manipulation on how their kids need to be there to succeed.  Don’t even take the phone calls or answer the emails.  Just reject them.  Gossip about facts and get the ball rolling.   You won’t have to deal with PPE much longer after that,  or atleast not the current PPE. 
 

The parents hold all the power.  That’s what everyone fails to realize.  The parents decide who the best organization is by taking the majority of talent to that program.  That’s all PPE and anyone else is living off of.  You take that away from them and they’re the same as any other local AAA program,  just with a shinier rink and a 5 star concession stand. 
 

These squirt and peewee parents are so concerned with making sure their kid gets a college scholarship.  If they knew how bad PPE is at actually providing development for that to happen,  they’d all be scared shitless to take their kids there.  Gossip and direct your attention towards something that could actually expose PPE and stop hyperventilating about how you think one of their employees is at Midams making power moves. 
 

Talk about how the director has hijacked hockey in this town,  and created an ‘Academy’ to rob parents blind,  and send their kid down the path of burn out and injury.  What are the results on the academy everyone is passively aggressively required to participate in?  Is paying all that money for that Academy helping kids over say… just attending a normal hockey program and maybe doing something extra curriculars?  Are kids at the academy moving on to higher levels of hockey at a higher pace than kids at some rando team in New Jersey who skates 3 times a week?  Nope.  
 

Talk about facts.  Educate people on verbal college commitments being just that,  and junior draft selections being just that.  PPE will put every kid who ever commits,  or gets drafted on their walls under the guise that it means those kids are automatically on the team.  Every organization does this if we are being honest,  but why do other organizations have so much more success with those kids actually following through on the commitment or draft opportunity ___ and making the junior or college squad?  Not for a lack of local talent__ just that most local talent gets funneled through an organization that is not good at developing talent.  Educate people on how their 10 year old doing toe drags is cool to see,  but that when hockey really matters,  it means virtually nothing and the kids need authentic coaching and development to make it to higher levels.  They need people looking out for them and doing right by them,  none of which happens at PPE.  The opposite in fact.  Forcing kids to do an academy,  skate 3 hours a day,  work out twice a day,  and then go home at 9 o’clock at night only to get up in the morning and attend a private school that their local public school is probably better than. 

 

One of their employees was posting on here until I told him I knew who we was.  Funny how that username is no longer active.  Didn’t want to substantially dispute anything I’m saying because there is no dispute for it.  Bring up facts and those guys will crawl into a hole.  Keeping bringing them up and they’ll be crawling all the way back the Ohio turnpike to the cities they came from. 

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1 hour ago, ChiefKeef said:

It’s wild how I am basically calling for the abolishment of the current PPE format,  and for some PPE individuals there to take their ‘talents’ back where they came from.  Still waiting for one of their employees,  or sympathizers to answer me on what their results are with moving kids on to higher levels of hockey…  Yet I am running propaganda and misinformation in their favor.

Just calling it like it is here in this conversation. That program is currently a joke,  and a bad one at that___ but they’re aren’t fucking pulling strings at USA hockey. Nor were they ever at the mid am camp to evaluate. 

Again, an 07 D from Esmark,  who was cut by PPE made the final camp.  
 

You should be grateful someone like myself, or Danner is around to ‘tell it like it is’.  You PAHL parents, Esmark parents and Vengeance parents get so wrapped up in blind rage toward PPE,  and how they’re seemingly always kaniving on behalf of their players__ when in reality,  you are giving these people entirely too much credit.   They aren’t the big scary machine you think they are,  those of us who have seen what it is,  behind the scenes know it as a house of cards. 
 

Propped up by the mindless parents who want PPE decals on the back of their vehicles so they can feel superior, never a thought about if their kid will actually be nurtured there.  And also by schizos outside PPE who hang out in local rinks with other parents gossiping about the  PPE boogeyman.  You people play in to their hands.  
 

All of the conspiracies and fairytales about what some of those guys are capable of are just that.  They are dime a dozen youth hockey people,  for better or worse.  In this case mostly worse.  Again,  they don’t give a single shit about what kids do outside of PPE,  one guy in particular is probably offended that mid am process even exist as it takes 2-3 weeks out of the time he could have paying ‘customers’ at the rink.

Who ever said it was PPE coaches were evaluations at the 07 camp?  

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What are you even trying to say?  Everyone in town that’s involved with hockey past bantam heard all about how there were some PPE people at the 07 camp.  Then we all heard the conspiracies as to why they were there.  
 

You know what though,  I honestly don’t care to continue a conversation about it.  It’s no skin off my back whether they were there or not,  what they were there for and what PPE people are doing. 
 

Let’s say that they were there evaluating and working favors for Pens kids, as has been insinuated here.  Compared to the big picture of how toxic that program is for the local hockey community,  it’s irrelevant. 

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oh my i went away from this board for a while because the adults sitting around utterly still obsessed with ppe was nauseating. i came back and you did not disappoint that’s for sure. you must have really gotten burned at ppe.  not sure if you had to drive to cleveland bc they didn’t want your kid or what??  none of what you say has been my family’s first hand experience there - none of it. from quality of training to help with juniors to all the crap about local kids to excel. it’s all just outsider-looking-in hogwash. you and others on here bashing the accomplishments of 16 year olds and saying no one can go anywhere is nauseating. the organization works hard to get those who work hard (and who have talent) where they should be. that’s the bottom line. 99% of it has to do with what the kid puts in. and if it’s gonna matter in the end that kid has to do a lot  of work and make a lot of sacrifice - A LOT - more than anyone on here can imagine and more than most young men are willing to do - understandably because even putting in all the work necessary who knows what the result will be - they are sacrificing normal life during high school and college - not able to do what the average kid is doing. not all 17 year olds want to do this. is that PPE’s or any other organization’s fault? the kids who do what it actually takes are few and far between but they do exist and PPE is great for THOSE kids. maybe not for the others. no magic wand is waved to get average kids D1 scholarships. and none of you must have any knowledge of what a player needs to do after youth is over  to make that D1 happen. it’s unreal.  

i’m leaving again and not commenting again to comments by yoy jealous old men. outta here. smh

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None of it has been your first hand experience because you work for the program. Coaches at the program also have free reign to do whatever they want with their kid,  so there’s that aspect as well.  Why don’t you man up and just own it,  no ordinary parent is that passionate about defending that program. Very odd how you go on to claim I’m bashing kids,  then make a claim about the 06’ kids that ‘they didn’t want’.  Also, if you are insinuating I’m an outsider looking in,  then how am I one of those parents. All of those 06’ kids were in the program for 5-6 years. Surely enough time to see what’s what.  Did you guys also not want the 06’ Pittsburgh kid who’s playing NTDP? LOL He hightailed it out of town as soon as he could. 
 

You are claiming the pens didn’t want the 06’ Pittsburgh kids,  yet their Barons team beat the brakes off the 06’ Pens team last season.  What does that say about PPE competence and evaluating talent?????

The training is mostly uninspired and vanilla.  Which comes from the top.  There’s honestly more being done at some other programs around town,  to nurture and help kids grow,  but those programs just don’t have the majority of talent.  You know you guys are way too invested in the bottom line to actually care about your players.  The bottom line doesn’t allow for good training,  good training is not forcing kids on the ice 4 hours a day and working out twice a day.  We have all heard it straight from the horses mouth__ we are ‘customers’.  There’s much more to developing kids than putting them on the ice and giving orders.  Again,  with out the majority of talented kids in town,  you’re the same as any other AAA program.  Maybe even less considering other AAA programs have people with better resumes working for them. 
 

I never said kids can’t go anywhere.  Kids can.  I’m pointing out the lack of kids that do coming from PPE.  What does Columbus outperform PPE every year with moving kids on?  Why do hockey programs in non-traditional markets with 1/4 the resources you have have alarmingly more success at moving kids on.  Don’t put the onus squarely on the kids ‘bud’.  You know as well as anyone what I am talking about.

 

 Yes, the kids need to work,  agreed.  A type of commitment that is not the norm.  Can you explain however,  what work they need to do? Or what that commitment is?  Excel students wake up at 7,  go to school then spend the rest of the night at the rink.  I would think Excel has all of this ‘work’ and ‘commitment’ covered, yes?  And if so, why is your program still so shitty at helping kids move on?  When is there time to do extra work?  On the weekends in between games?  What are you talking about?  I’ll save you the response,  you’re spewing generic coach talk.  Work hard… blah blah.  Furthermore,  does Pittsburgh just have a shortage of kids who can work hard and other towns don’t?  Every single birth year?  

No magic wand is waived to get kids D1 scholarships?  LOLOLOLOL.  No shit.  Maybe you can check in with the hundrereds of programs,  again,  with 1/4 the resources that do an exponentially better job of helping,  not waiving a wand,  kids get opportunities. 
 

Classic Pens Elite trash.  Blame it on not being enough 17 year olds that want to work hard.  Blame it on the kids and families. 
 

What’s nauseating ‘bud’ is what PPE has done to local hockey.  Why is their so much turn over in bantam and midgets?  Why do the 06’ Pittsburgh kids all play outside of town?  Why did most of the 07’ team walk away?  Why are all of your 08’s gone?   

Because your program sucks.  You have just capitalized on a jersey,  a rink,  and parent insecurity.  As well as a small town that just doesn’t know any better to see you for what you are until it’s too late. 
 

What are the results?  And why?  Do me a favor, don’t blame it on the kids.  Give me one solid reason outside of blaming it on kids as to why you guys are so incompetent at developing players? 
 

 

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Wonder if all the families in the 06’, 07’ and 08’ BY who have to drive 2 hours,  say goodbye to their kid (billet) at 14-15, or move altogether have any nausea.  
 

You getting your feelings hurt by seeing the truth being told is small beans ‘bud’. Grow up.
 

 

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It would be interesting to know if they replaced that Penguin logo on the jersey, didn't have the name "Penguins" involved at all, lost the fancy arena,  snack bar, and fireplace and played in a typical area arena, how much oooohhhhing and aaaawwwing about them would disappear. 

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59 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

It would be interesting to know if they replaced that Penguin logo on the jersey, didn't have the name "Penguins" involved at all, lost the fancy arena,  snack bar, and fireplace and played in a typical area arena, how much oooohhhhing and aaaawwwing about them would disappear. 

That was called the hornets, the program was very successful with half the bs. 

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1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

That was called the hornets, the program was very successful with half the bs. 

Successful in what way? Pittsburgh hockey was worse way back then. Much worse.

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3 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

Successful in what way? Pittsburgh hockey was worse way back then. Much worse.

Worse how? 
 

The hornets had local kids going places left and right.  What do the Pens have?  A kid who is the 1% and was developed by his uncles.  They aren’t fooling anyone with that.  That kid is so good at hockey that it never really mattered where he played.  

The only other kid to ever put ink to paper in the NHL was a kid who’s Dad saw the Pens program for what it was, and bailed.  The irony in that is still palpable. 

Again, if your kid is not the 1%__ and just to make that clear__ that 1% spans across birthyears. 10 years or more worth of birthyears.   I don’t mean 1% of who’s the best 2010.  If your kid is not that, like 99% of our kids aren’t.  Then your sending your kid down a path of real uncertainty and potential developmental failure by having them play at PPE.  Can kids still make it out of there,  yes.  It’s going to be that much harder though when other ‘top programs’ around the country actually know what they are doing with talent evaluation and development.  It’s going to be that much harder when PPE prioritizes income over all else.  Your kid is a customer… their words.  The tell you this to your face during their presentations at the awkward ass season kick off parties.  Has anyone else ever heard a youth sports organization refer to its players as customers? Lol 
 

It’s not even about the pros with the pens.  Where are the results for junior and college players?  Is the 30k price tag between Excel and the regular season living up to its cost?  The fucked up part is not only is it proving not to benefit kids,  it’s actually working against them because they are doing entirely too much between skating and working out 5 hours a day, keeping up with a private school (that isn’t even worth it’s cost outside of hockey).  You’re required to do it,  and if you don’t they will replace you with someone who will.  If they can’t find a replacement they make you get dressed in a locker room by yourself and treat you like a Leper both on and off the ice. 

The facts are the facts.  It’s all accessible to anyone who cares to research it.  They are dog shit at developing kids.  They have other programs around the country___who skate 3 times a week, no gym, no bravado, no con artist academy and 1/4 the resources___seriously out performing them in the amount of kids they are sending to higher levels of hockey. 
 

Scroll back and see the meltdown one of their employees just had here because he knows what he’s reading is dead accurate. 
 

06’s, 07’s and 08’s have fled that program en masse.  How is what the hornets did worse than what’s going on currently?  If your kid has aspirations for anything more than amateur hockey they either have to leave town at 14 or roll the dice with Pens and odds stacked against their favor. 

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Maybe we should have a Pens thread with a spreadsheet and some data.  An assessment of sorts.  Their guy isn’t around anymore to get the threads deleted. 
 

What do you think hockey2020? We don’t have to name any kids names.  Just data on who moved on, and how long did they play at Pens? What’s the percentage of locals moving on?  What the percentage of locals still with the program in year 6? Are the Pens helping kids from the start all the way up or are they primarily having kids come in from the outside, for a year, maybe 2, and then claiming them if they commit or get drafted?  Then maybe get to the bottom of what the odds are for all that money these families are spending.  We’ll have to agree, however,  not to blame it on the lack of kids who want to ‘work hard’.  They spend all day and night at your cult in Cranberry.  So it’s on the Pens to see that they are doing such. 
 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

Are the Pens helping kids from the start all the way up or are they primarily having kids come in from the outside, for a year, maybe 2, and then claiming them if they commit or get drafted?  

They “help” them for 4-6 years from mites to peewees and then dump them to esmark or vengeance for kids from Michigan. It’s an awesome development model for local kids. 

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13 hours ago, stickboy said:

For one, they produced multiple homegrown NHLers!

There is a lot of justifiable criticism of PPE, but do you honestly think Pittsburgh hockey was better in the 90s and early 2000s? Notwithstanding some of the failures of some of our top local tier 1 organizations (PPE, Esmark) and our tier 2 youth league (PAHL), Pittsburgh hockey talent has never been deeper or better. I have no idea how old you are, but I know that's tough for old timers to admit. And the old Pittsburgh Hornets were far from perfect. I can think of a few players that were given bad advice by that organization that derailed their junior careers.

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On 8/19/2022 at 11:55 PM, ChiefKeef said:

Your logic about this is completely flawed as well. An 07 Dmen from Esmark who was cut by PPE, made the final USA camp.  You don’t think the PPE would have snuck in one of their kids if they were calling the shots? 

Well you said they were there to recruit.  Maybe they were recruiting him.  Especially if the candidate family was of the correct ilk, and/or an incumbent defenseman family was causing problems.  Did he attend tryouts?  Did they take him?

But there is no doubt who is calling the shots at this camp.  This camp gets a big fat DO NOT ATTEND from Jack Handey.  Unless you are invited by an evaluator (wink, nudge), or until Mid-Am level-sets by publishing the evaluators and evaluation process.

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On 8/20/2022 at 9:32 AM, Danner27 said:

Stay away from the Facebook advisor and the guy that runs the junior hockey news.

I haven't had personal dealings with either of these guys but I find the one guy on FB - his video content is often spot on.  Guessing you crossed paths at one point @Danner27 and you didn't much care for him.  The other guy (junior hockey news) also runs a FB group too but I find that page less helpful, content flavored with cynicism, aloofness, and an occasional axe-to-grind personal tone. 

@hockeyisgreat be advised (ha ha see what I did there) that there are two kinds of professionals in this space.  The first type - let's call them "advisors".  They will charge a fee up front (usually $4k and up) - giving you access to them, their network, their contact lists, and they help you to market your player with self-promotional materials like resumes, videos, and social media.  They will also recommend camps to attend for exposure.  JDM and NCSA are examples.  There are several out there that will gladly take your money.  Their performance will vary widely.  The second type - let's call them "agents".  Much like their counterparts, they are well connected and will provide you guidance on where to play.  Most of them are former pro players, coaches, or scouts.  The main difference is that they do not charge a fee until your player becomes a professional.  

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"PPE"-

They are a private organization just like the other hockey orgs. At the end of the day they will dictate there terms & conditions & each family can decide weather to play for them or not. Whomever owns PPE has that right. The academy is a requirement for 99% of the players & they do not hide it. I personally respect that even though it's not what I would do. My opinion at the end of the day is meaningless because I do not own the Pens Elite. 

"PPE being only option" -

It's not the only option. Take the 06 most recent birth year Junior draft. The original PPE 06 1st year Squirt team was ranked 4th in the country. There is only one player left in that birth year & he is an 07 that is still with PPE. That original team has 1 player that made the U17 NTDP team, 3 that were drafted by the OHL, 1 drafted by the USHL & 2 drafted by the NCDC. Some kids were cut, some left on there own terms & some were cut unjustly. There is also an 07 that is the only player left & will 100% make the U17 NTDP that is the only player remaining. If you really know any of these 7 players & have seen them play regularly & are objective at all you will agree they all have a chance to play D1 hockey. They made it leaving the pens at some point. I think the current PPE team has about the same amount of draft picks so they also have a good group of kids.

"MID AM PPE influence" -

PPE has influence for sure. That said they should. Again use the 06 birth year PPE was ranked 1 spot below Cleveland who was 6th. Shaha was the next closest ranked 42. 10 kids made nationals 5 PPE, 3 Barons one a goalie & a BK & Mt St Charles kid. If you understand this birth year & follow it or have a player in it you will know that Cleveland should have had 4 or 5 kids pens 2 or 3 & there is 1 or 2  kids from Shaha & the BK kid for sure. The kid from Cleveland there top scorer who arguably could be considered the top 06 at the MID AMS who was drafted by the USHL & OHL minus the "U17NTDP" was not even picked. All that said be happy for the kids that were picked they are all good players. Only the "U17NTDP" who qualified in another district made it of the former PPE kids that were drafted.  

"Solution to PPE" 

*  Purchase PPE organization

*  Play for another organization

*  Complain about PPE 

 

 

 

 

  

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6 hours ago, Puck01 said:

"PPE"-

They are a private organization just like the other hockey orgs. At the end of the day they will dictate there terms & conditions & each family can decide weather to play for them or not. Whomever owns PPE has that right. The academy is a requirement for 99% of the players & they do not hide it. I personally respect that even though it's not what I would do. My opinion at the end of the day is meaningless because I do not own the Pens Elite. 

"PPE being only option" -

It's not the only option. Take the 06 most recent birth year Junior draft. The original PPE 06 1st year Squirt team was ranked 4th in the country. There is only one player left in that birth year & he is an 07 that is still with PPE. That original team has 1 player that made the U17 NTDP team, 3 that were drafted by the OHL, 1 drafted by the USHL & 2 drafted by the NCDC. Some kids were cut, some left on there own terms & some were cut unjustly. There is also an 07 that is the only player left & will 100% make the U17 NTDP that is the only player remaining. If you really know any of these 7 players & have seen them play regularly & are objective at all you will agree they all have a chance to play D1 hockey. They made it leaving the pens at some point. I think the current PPE team has about the same amount of draft picks so they also have a good group of kids.

"MID AM PPE influence" -

PPE has influence for sure. That said they should. Again use the 06 birth year PPE was ranked 1 spot below Cleveland who was 6th. Shaha was the next closest ranked 42. 10 kids made nationals 5 PPE, 3 Barons one a goalie & a BK & Mt St Charles kid. If you understand this birth year & follow it or have a player in it you will know that Cleveland should have had 4 or 5 kids pens 2 or 3 & there is 1 or 2  kids from Shaha & the BK kid for sure. The kid from Cleveland there top scorer who arguably could be considered the top 06 at the MID AMS who was drafted by the USHL & OHL minus the "U17NTDP" was not even picked. All that said be happy for the kids that were picked they are all good players. Only the "U17NTDP" who qualified in another district made it of the former PPE kids that were drafted.  

"Solution to PPE" 

*  Purchase PPE organization

*  Play for another organization

*  Complain about PPE 

  

You sound like a well-reasoned, decent person. That's in contrast to a lot of the psychotic ranting that happens on this forum.

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I see we have the whole PPE squad on here now trying to do PR lol There’s certainly a lot of kids taking you up on your 2nd option huh?! 

Last years 06 pens team had kids that came in for that season, then got drafted.  That’s half the point__ they aren’t developing kids, they’re attaching their names to kids success without having much of a hand in the process. 
 

Solution counter: 

- Stop the mass turn over on every team, every year. This entails a complete culture change.  Stop Seriously talented local kids from falling behind their counterparts nation wide. Not getting opportunities they should have gotten because they spent all that time trusting the process and skating around punching bag dummies while other programs kids were getting legit training. 

 

- Stop blaming your shortcomings as a program on kids and families.  Your model is seriously flawed.  Most of the hockey community outside of Pittsburgh doesn’t take you seriously.  When your program is brought up,  eyes roll and sighs are let out. 
 

- Do away with Excel academy.  The on ice portion of it is nothing more than a glorified skills and drills session that people can buy  (at their own pace) for much less than the 30k it takes to do Excel.  None of your results as a program justify having and forcing this program on players.  You simply aren’t good enough at what you do to have this be an expectation. 
 

OR
 

Two birth years folks. Two consecutive squirt birthyears choosing the Vengeance or some where else and it will get the ball rolling for birthyears to follow. Look at the 08 group at Harmarville thriving__ those kids are all doing great and getting invited to all the things they would have been if they were at Pens.  
 

If you can’t get over the rink, or the jersey just remember what you hear from those of us who’ve been through it.  The parents decide who the best organization is.  Take PPE’s whole ‘customer’ pool and put them in Harmarville for a year.  I personally think you would see kids thrive,  but at the very least, they would be doing the same. Albeit with people who actually care about them. And no 30k for Excel.  No smoke and mirrors around every turn.  No organizations heads trying to sell them down the river when they’re 14__for the optics of bringing in an out of town kid.

Edited by ChiefKeef
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5 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

You sound like a well-reasoned, decent person. That's in contrast to a lot of the psychotic ranting that happens on this forum.

You sound obvious.  
 

Time will tell though. I bet we can revisit this convo down the line here and see if what was being discussed had some merit. 

Edited by ChiefKeef
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1 hour ago, ChiefKeef said:

I see we have the whole PPE squad on here now trying to do PR lol There’s certainly a lot of kids taking you up on your 2nd option huh?! 

Last years 06 pens team had kids that came in for that season, then got drafted.  That’s half the point__ they aren’t developing kids, they’re attaching their names to kids success without having much of a hand in the process. 
 

Solution counter: 

- Stop the mass turn over on every team, every year. This entails a complete culture change.  Stop Seriously talented local kids from falling behind their counterparts nation wide. Not getting opportunities they should have gotten because they spent all that time trusting the process and skating around punching bag dummies while other programs kids were getting legit training. 

 

- Stop blaming your shortcomings as a program on kids and families.  Your model is seriously flawed.  Most of the hockey community outside of Pittsburgh doesn’t take you seriously.  When your program is brought up,  eyes roll and sighs are let out. 
 

- Do away with Excel academy.  The on ice portion of it is nothing more than a glorified skills and drills session that people can buy  (at their own pace) for much less than the 30k it takes to do Excel.  None of your results as a program justify having and forcing this program on players.  You simply aren’t good enough at what you do to have this be an expectation. 
 

OR
 

Two birth years folks. Two consecutive squirt birthyears choosing the Vengeance or some where else and it will get the ball rolling for birthyears to follow. Look at the 08 group at Harmarville thriving__ those kids are all doing great and getting invited to all the things they would have been if they were at Pens.  
 

If you can’t get over the rink, or the jersey just remember what you hear from those of us who’ve been through it.  The parents decide who the best organization is.  Take PPE’s whole ‘customer’ pool and put them in Harmarville for a year.  I personally think you would see kids thrive,  but at the very least, they would be doing the same. Albeit with people who actually care about them. And no 30k for Excel.  No smoke and mirrors around every turn.  No organizations heads trying to sell them down the river when they’re 14__for the optics of bringing in an out of town kid.

 

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 Definitely not part of the PPE squad. Thought I was clear that I do not believe in there business plan & that players can succeed without PPE. Sure it would be great if PPE could change there system to help develop Pittsburgh kids. I am sure everyone on here would like that. I respect your positions even agree with some, most of them. PPE is very clear on what they are doing & I am sure they see the amount of turnover so it has & probably will not change. It won't change until the owners or the organization change it. 

 

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