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19 hours ago, Puck01 said:

PPE has influence for sure. That said they should.

They should have one vote on an independent committee made up of representatives from across Mid-Am.  How about this: the selection committee is made up of one representative from each of the top 6 teams that make it to districts.  There, I fixed it.

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43 minutes ago, Saucey said:

Youth sports are primarily about making money these days. Development will continue to suck so long as adults are making their living off parents' dreams for their children.

I agree and disagree!  Shouldn't you have to pay for development?  Isn't it up to you to find the person or persons that will help your child develop?  Now if you said there are no good people to develop talent in SWPA that's a different story!

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Well if you aren’t then that’s my bad.  I apologize. I admittedly did not read your full post and focused on the solution part.  It sounds a lot like the arrogance that comes from them, albeit I see now that you meant it in a different context. 
 

I admittedly just don’t like your solutions,  with all due respect.  I disagree with some of what you said about them being a private organization.  In theory that’s true of course.  However, if you’re going to operate under the umbrella of a pro hockey team, use their likeness to sell your product__ then you should probably not stray too far from the codes and ethics familiar to said program. 
 

As of right now, The Pittsburgh Penguins look complicit in harboring a youth hockey program that is widely known to screw over local Pittsburgh kids.  The same kids who’s parent most likely have spent thousands over the years on Crosby jerseys and tickets to PPG. 
 

Furthermore, to my major point, they aren’t even good at what they do. That rink is a meat market of teenaged kids, where they heard the cattle on the ice,  bark orders and hope everyone figures it out.  It’s uninspired,  non-detail oriented,  vanilla crap that doesn’t benefit kids growth.  It’s simply the repetition of being on the ice.  Which is better than nothing,  but there methods do not stack up to their competitors when it comes to taking athletes and developing for long term success. There’s no refuting this, it’s in the data. 

Edited by ChiefKeef
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7 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

Well if you aren’t then that’s my bad.  I apologize. I admittedly did not read your full post and focused on the solution part.  It sounds a lot like the arrogance that comes from them, albeit I see now that you meant it in a different context. 
 

I admittedly just don’t like your solutions,  with all due respect.  I disagree with some of what you said about them being a private organization.  In theory that’s true of course.  However, if you’re going to operate under the umbrella of a pro hockey team, use their likeness to sell your product__ then you should probably not stray too far from the codes and ethics familiar to said program. 
 

As of right now, The Pittsburgh Penguins look complicit in harboring a youth hockey program that is widely known to screw over local Pittsburgh kids.  The same kids who’s parent most likely have spent thousands over the years on Crosby jerseys and tickets to PPG. 
 

Furthermore, to my major point, they aren’t even good at what they do. That rink is a meat market where they heard the cattle on the ice,  bark orders and hope everyone figures it out.  It’s uninspired,  non-detail oriented,  vanilla crap that doesn’t benefit kids growth.  It’s simply the repetition of being on the ice.  Which is better than nothing,  but there methods do not stack up to their competitors when it comes to taking athletes and developing for long term success. There’s no refuting this, it’s in the data. 

All that money put into that rink and it's already having problems with stairs cracking and the roof leaking on top of many other small things. 

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Well regarding money.  Families are what, over 60k invested by Peewee major? And that’s just dues and travel__ not Grade school/Middle schools excel or any extra curricular. 

Actually, now that they’ve sunk their teeth into mites and 5 year old hockey, it’s probably over 80k leading up to peewee major. 

I would think it would be a decent thing to do by having a conversation about the state of that program. The data is all there to prove how shitty they are at what they claim to do.  It’s just on the people who have been through the intangibles to tell the other side of the story. So I don’t view it as complaining as the other poster said.  I view it as having a conversation on a medium meant for conversation, one that’s heavily trafficked by western pa hockey parents__ and potentially educating some people on what they’re getting into. 
 

It’s easy for some to say__ purchase the team or complain.  When you don’t have a kid who has to leave home at 14 due to PPE incompetence.  That organization should be serving local kids.  Not pillaging them for all they are worth until it comes time for the academy prep school cosplay__ then either sending locals packing or catering to outside kids at the expense of the local.  Get more squirt parents in the loop and reject PPE early on__ the whole landscape will change within two years. People operate under the guise that PPE is the end all be all for their kids.  It’s those initial groups of ‘top’ squirts choosing where to play that dictates the power. Educate those parents and watch the hockey scene turn back into one that is free of the toxicity that permeates it from Cranberry. It’s that simple. Let them know that it’s cool to wear a pens jersey but it’s a lot more beneficial to have people who are invested in your child,  working with your child.  Prime example: the PPE coach on here thinks it’s black and white, kids just need to work hard because there’s no ‘magic wand’.  Dude doesn’t even consider that there could be more to it than working hard,  and that that has to come from the people who are involved with your development.  Maybe that’s enough for a squirt player to have success hockey2020, as you well know,  but there’s a lot more to it when hockey starts to matter at 14.  And your program doesn’t know what or how to deal with it.  And they aren’t even interested in finding out, because you’re enabled by parents who don’t know any better. I’d say PPE is on easy street, but it’s much more sinister than that given all the resources you extract from families. 
 

I’d be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge that PPE does have ‘some’ good people working there.  Unfortunately their individual contributions cannot escape the shadow of what the executive directors version of the program is. Better said,  you can have a good year with a good coach,  you’re still going to run into the wall when it comes time for high school Excel. I would name said people who are just there to coach,  but it would probably draw the ire of their boss who would view them as a threat, or that they’re co-conspiring with a person on a message board to under mine him.  The situation is that dense. 
 

The UPMC rink is still leaps and bounds better than most, whatever issues it may be having. The 200x85 sheet of ice is the same everywhere… what goes on, on it is what matters.  That’s where the Pens ‘cracks’ show… 

 

Edited by ChiefKeef
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Almost the 10yr anniversary of that program. Here’s an article from when it started:

https://archive.triblive.com/news/penguins-elite-program-hopes-to-take-local-amateur-hockey-to-next-level/

Boy, has the business model changed from the sales pitch back then!  Look at how many times the quotes note developing local Pittsburgh talent for next levels and specifically a note that top players shouldn’t have to leave town to play at the highest level. Current management should read this and get back closer to this model; without a $25k price tag!  

Edited by stickboy
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2 minutes ago, stickboy said:

Almost the 10yr anniversary of that program. Here’s an article from when it’s started:

https://archive.triblive.com/news/penguins-elite-program-hopes-to-take-local-amateur-hockey-to-next-level/

Boy, has the business model changed from the sales pitch back then!  Look at how many times the quotes note developing local Pittsburgh talent for next levels and specifically a note that top players shouldn’t have to leave town to play at the highest level. Current management should read this and get back closer to this model; without a $25k price tag!  

MIC DROP LOL

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3 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I agree and disagree!  Shouldn't you have to pay for development?  Isn't it up to you to find the person or persons that will help your child develop?  Now if you said there are no good people to develop talent in SWPA that's a different story!

I am old enough to remember when there weren't any 'elite' youth athletes and no one worried about 'development'. You just played. Focus was on exercise and fun. If you liked whatever the sport was, you worked on it on your own. So, yeah. I know, I am old.

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3 hours ago, ChiefKeef said:

Get more squirt parents in the loop and reject PPE early on__ the whole landscape will change within two years. People operate under the guise that PPE is the end all be all for their kids.  It’s those initial groups of ‘top’ squirts choosing where to play that dictates the power.

Personally speaking, as a parent of a "top" squirt who was recruited by TE and asked to tryout at PPE and declined the offer, I can say that there is a lot of talks about this exact thing with parents of players at this age group. Time will tell. Currently there are 2-3 squirt teams in the area that are full of parents with the mindset that PPE isn't the end all be all for their kid. 

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2 hours ago, Saucey said:

I am old enough to remember when there weren't any 'elite' youth athletes and no one worried about 'development'. You just played. Focus was on exercise and fun. If you liked whatever the sport was, you worked on it on your own. So, yeah. I know, I am old.

I'm with you then.  Nobody used to recruit squirts.  There were no "elite" 10 year olds.  Most of the time you played for the organization at whatever rink was closest.  If there were several rinks close by, you played with the team with mostly kids from your school.  Funny... probably had just about the same percentage of kids moving on to "higher" levels of hockey back then too.

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14 hours ago, Saucey said:

I am old enough to remember when there weren't any 'elite' youth athletes and no one worried about 'development'. You just played. Focus was on exercise and fun. If you liked whatever the sport was, you worked on it on your own. So, yeah. I know, I am old.

Same here @Saucey, same here….

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16 hours ago, Saucey said:

I am old enough to remember when there weren't any 'elite' youth athletes and no one worried about 'development'. You just played. Focus was on exercise and fun. If you liked whatever the sport was, you worked on it on your own. So, yeah. I know, I am old.

Yes, I'm that age also!  Maybe sports were a lot more fun in those days where you went to the field and there were 20 other kids just like you who wanted to play till dark.  Why was everything so much simpler 50 years ago! Oh Well now our kids, kids have to keep up with the pack and hire all the coaches to make them an average player haha!  Takes the fun out of the sport

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