09 vengeance?

[Lifelongbender]

Just now, YardSale said:

I can’t imagine making the choice to pay the higher price tag on a team everyone knows will be worse than AA counterparts and traveling all over the place every weekend getting your but kicked just to say you play AAA.

Sadly there are PLENTY of players who will do it, though.

[hockey07]

Apparently esmark hasn’t given up?

 

did the kids from Esmark who made vengeance accept 

[Hattrick Swayze]

They need to give up and let these players try out elsewhere. They are going to hold on to them too long and it’s the kids that are going to get screwed over. 

[bender05]

Supposedly some going to 09 badgers from esmark 

[RicoFata]

With all the movement (and I'm sure more to come), what are everyone's rankings going into the season at 09 AA with some teams really improving?

Last year's Myhockey rankings at 09

#1 MidState 37-9-6

#2 PHA 40-15-10

#3 Steel City 43-19-2

#4 Allegheny 33-19-5

#5 Viper Stars 33-13-1

#6 North Pitt 22-15-3

#7 Arctic Foxes 19-24-6

#8 South Pitt 20-27-10

#9 Preds 14-29-4

 

I've only seen PHA and they looked like a juggernaut when I watched them, had some holes but I'm sure they'll pick up some guys after such a successful season.  Going off what the other people have said in this thread for new teams to watch.

 

I'll go with: #1 PHA, #2 Steel City, #3 North Pitt, #4 MidState, #5 Allegheny, #6 South Pitt

 

Probably very wrong, but let's hear what everyone else thinks!

[JohanHedberg1]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:45 AM, RJUSHL said:

With Preds 09 AAA and SHAHA 09 AAA improving and making changes, will be interesting to see if Esmark tries to come in and scoop up their cuts. If so it will be the definition of AA team. Getting the kids who really should be in AA anyways. The other option is for them to pack it in for a year, not field a team, and regroup with a better plan next time around.

I know Esmark advertised practicing in New Ken and Southpointe, but Esmark never even really took the time to explain how that will look. Parents rightfully have questions about that so why not be specific and detailed? And then it comes out that Esmark (across the entire organization) would just have one single ice slot per week at Printscape. So it's really just PIA & Printscape in name only and PIA for 95% of practices and games. Bad job by Esmark being specific and explaining how that would work.

I'm sure other things went into basically their entire 09 AAA team leaving.

Bottom line: Have a plan way ahead of time, be detailed about that plan, communicate that plan, and then tactfully sew up your top kids and get their feedback and thoughts about a month before tryouts. Yes it's a lot of work, but it's not complicated.

A lot of organizations are dismal communicators and I never even have an avenue/method for gathering feedback in order to improve.

Someone said it early in this thread and I think it's true: If you're not getting better you're getting worse.

Some 09 organizations/teams across AA and AAA seem to be getting better: Preds AAA, Rebellion AA, and North Pitt AA. One thing they have in common is they all had a plan and communicated that plan.

Preds 09 AAA announced their move to Black Bear's Tier 1 Hockey Federation. These kids now have a championship to play for and a league that is well structured. They announced this early.

Rebellion 09 AA announced a plan for the season over a month ago. They announced all four coaches (which is a crazy lineup of experience with specific coaches for forwards and defenseman), the fact that they are playing PAHL AA as well as Black Bears AHF league as a showcase team, and even announced what other specific tournaments they are playing like a CCM tournament. All this was announced and communicated early and that inspires confidence that they have it together and have a plan.

North Pitt 09 AA announced Cliff Loya as their coach early on in the process. That is a good get as far as a coach and I'm sure that helped them get the interest they are getting, although I'm not sure if he will travel with the team. Bottom line is they seem to have a plan.

Those three examples are a lot different from the many teams that seem to be taking a step backwards. Have a solid plan and communicate that plan early and often and you will grow/improve/win as an organization or team.

Suprised to hear everyone heading to the Preds for the T1HF... That was a weak league at 09 last year with a lot of the "AA & A" teams actualy at the middle of the pack above a lot of "AAA" teams. Just suprising to me.

[JohanHedberg1]

35 minutes ago, RicoFata said:

With all the movement (and I'm sure more to come), what are everyone's rankings going into the season at 09 AA with some teams really improving?

Last year's Myhockey rankings at 09

#1 MidState 37-9-6

#2 PHA 40-15-10

#3 Steel City 43-19-2

#4 Allegheny 33-19-5

#5 Viper Stars 33-13-1

#6 North Pitt 22-15-3

#7 Arctic Foxes 19-24-6

#8 South Pitt 20-27-10

#9 Preds 14-29-4

 

I've only seen PHA and they looked like a juggernaut when I watched them, had some holes but I'm sure they'll pick up some guys after such a successful season.  Going off what the other people have said in this thread for new teams to watch.

 

I'll go with: #1 PHA, #2 Steel City, #3 North Pitt, #4 MidState, #5 Allegheny, #6 South Pitt

 

Probably very wrong, but let's hear what everyone else thinks!

PHA was good and played a good Schedule. Not hearing much about them picking anyone up this year on here, seems to be every other AA team. Aren't they disqualified from tier 2 states for joining the Black Bear AAA T1HF though? They are advertising everywhere that their 09 team is joining it. maybe false advertising?

 

You would think they are the leader this year if they improved. Mid state has no one to pull from.

[hockey07]

1 hour ago, JohanHedberg1 said:

PHA was good and played a good Schedule. Not hearing much about them picking anyone up this year on here, seems to be every other AA team. Aren't they disqualified from tier 2 states for joining the Black Bear AAA T1HF though? They are advertising everywhere that their 09 team is joining it. maybe false advertising?

 

You would think they are the leader this year if they improved. Mid state has no one to pull from.

they had a big turnout tonight and heard they are getting one of Esmark’s goalies from last year 

[Hky05]

2 hours ago, RicoFata said:

With all the movement (and I'm sure more to come), what are everyone's rankings going into the season at 09 AA with some teams really improving?

Last year's Myhockey rankings at 09

#1 MidState 37-9-6

#2 PHA 40-15-10

#3 Steel City 43-19-2

#4 Allegheny 33-19-5

#5 Viper Stars 33-13-1

#6 North Pitt 22-15-3

#7 Arctic Foxes 19-24-6

#8 South Pitt 20-27-10

#9 Preds 14-29-4

 

I've only seen PHA and they looked like a juggernaut when I watched them, had some holes but I'm sure they'll pick up some guys after such a successful season.  Going off what the other people have said in this thread for new teams to watch.

 

I'll go with: #1 PHA, #2 Steel City, #3 North Pitt, #4 MidState, #5 Allegheny, #6 South Pitt

 

Probably very wrong, but let's hear what everyone else thinks!

renegades top goalie went to Esmark team that folded-rumor is he goes back to renegades or badgers-if he doesn’t go back to renegades that team will be down a lot farther 

[aaaahockey]

12 hours ago, Hky05 said:

renegades top goalie went to Esmark team that folded-rumor is he goes back to renegades or badgers-if he doesn’t go back to renegades that team will be down a lot farther 

So did anyone actually confirm this team folded or not?

[TeamRamRod]

I talked to someone with a kid on the team this morning and he said they're done.  They were apparently trying to hang on this week but kids were scattered all over at different tryouts.

[YardSale]

29 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

So did anyone actually confirm this team folded or not?

Yes, they notified the commits last night after Vengeance offers went out.

[HockeyFan6687]

So based on these players intentions, they’ve already made the Badgers or whatever other team they are going to?  Kind of defeats the purpose of trying out don’t ya say?  Or do these teams get picked ahead of time. 
 

it’s always amazed me how much information some individuals have about the “free agent” player movement of these kids and the whole low down on what each team is with their rosters and who the favorites are for at this time next year.  I could have thought I was reading about the NHL but then I realized we are talking about 13-14 year olds.  I think it takes a lot of free time obsessing over trivial matters such as this.  It’s a kids game. Better to sit back and enjoy watching the games.  

[RJUSHL]

19 hours ago, RicoFata said:

I'll go with: #1 PHA, #2 Steel City, #3 North Pitt, #4 MidState, #5 Allegheny, #6 South Pitt

 

Probably very wrong, but let's hear what everyone else thinks!

PHA 09 in the wrong category here. They are Tier 1 next year. So with Esmark 09 not happening the Tier 1 09 teams may go something like this:

1. Pens
2. Vengeance
3. Preds (T1HF)
4. SHAHA
5. Icemen (T1HF)

For Tier II 09 AA this is my guess:

1. Mustangs (non PAHL)
2. *SCIR
3. *North Pitt
4. *Rebellion (PAHL & AHF)
5. *Allegheny (PAHL & AHF)
6. Preds
7. SHAHA
8. Lebo
9. Foxes

* - Those four are the top PAHL AA teams, all of them should be very close. Pick or choose the top one. Should be a clear delineation after those four.

If you did slot the Icemen in Tier II, I think they would be in the #3 spot. PHA isn't the only team picking up AAA cuts. So is North Pitt, SCIR, and Rebellion. AA teams are getting a lot better at the top next year.

Edited April 21, 2023 by RJUSHL

[JohanHedberg1]

2 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

PHA 09 in the wrong category here. They are Tier 1 next year. So with Esmark 09 not happening the Tier 1 09 teams may go something like this:

1. Pens
2. Vengeance
3. Preds (T1HF)
4. SHAHA
5. Icemen (T1HF)

For Tier II 09 AA this is my guess:

1. Mustangs (non PAHL)
2. *SCIR
3. *North Pitt
4. *Rebellion (PAHL & AHF)
5. *Allegheny (PAHL & AHF)
6. Preds
7. SHAHA
8. Lebo
9. Foxes

* - Those four are the top PAHL AA teams, all of them should be very close. Pick or choose the top one. Should be a clear delineation after those four.

If you did slot the Icemen in Tier II, I think they would be in the #3 spot. PHA isn't the only team picking up AAA cuts. So is North Pitt, SCIR, and Rebellion. AA teams are getting a lot better at the top next year.

Says on PHA website that they are going Tier 2 this last season at 09, then making the jump to tier 1 at 15UAAA. But they are also claiming and promoting that they are in the T1HF. T1HF claims they are only letting in tier 1 teams this season, but maybe allowing them to join with their future intentions, or due to the rest of their organization participating in it. Would be real strange if they promoted it everywhere and then weren't in it this season. Guess we will see. 

Sound like it is going to be a great year of AA hockey with a lot of teams in the top 30 from Western PA for Tier 2...

[JohanHedberg1]

22 hours ago, RicoFata said:

With all the movement (and I'm sure more to come), what are everyone's rankings going into the season at 09 AA with some teams really improving?

Last year's Myhockey rankings at 09

#1 MidState 37-9-6

#2 PHA 40-15-10

#3 Steel City 43-19-2

#4 Allegheny 33-19-5

#5 Viper Stars 33-13-1

#6 North Pitt 22-15-3

#7 Arctic Foxes 19-24-6

#8 South Pitt 20-27-10

#9 Preds 14-29-4

 

I've only seen PHA and they looked like a juggernaut when I watched them, had some holes but I'm sure they'll pick up some guys after such a successful season.  Going off what the other people have said in this thread for new teams to watch.

 

I'll go with: #1 PHA, #2 Steel City, #3 North Pitt, #4 MidState, #5 Allegheny, #6 South Pitt

 

Probably very wrong, but let's hear what everyone else thinks!

Gotta agree with you here. With everything I’m hearing I’ll go with just one change

#1 PHA, #2 Steel City, #3MidState, #4 North Pitt, #5 Allegheny, #6 South Pitt

[hockey07]

16 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

PHA 09 in the wrong category here. They are Tier 1 next year. So with Esmark 09 not happening the Tier 1 09 teams may go something like this:

1. Pens
2. Vengeance
3. Preds (T1HF)
4. SHAHA
5. Icemen (T1HF)

For Tier II 09 AA this is my guess:

1. Mustangs (non PAHL)
2. *SCIR
3. *North Pitt
4. *Rebellion (PAHL & AHF)
5. *Allegheny (PAHL & AHF)
6. Preds
7. SHAHA
8. Lebo
9. Foxes

* - Those four are the top PAHL AA teams, all of them should be very close. Pick or choose the top one. Should be a clear delineation after those four.

If you did slot the Icemen in Tier II, I think they would be in the #3 spot. PHA isn't the only team picking up AAA cuts. So is North Pitt, SCIR, and Rebellion. AA teams are getting a lot better at the top next year.

My guess:

tier 1:

1. Pens

2. vengeance 

3. preds

4. shaha

tier 2:

1. Allegheny 

2. Icemen

3. Mustangs

4. Rebellion 

5. SCIR

6. North Pitt

7. preds

8. Lebo

9. shaha

10. Foxes 

 

 

 

[aaaahockey]

14 hours ago, JohanHedberg1 said:

 

Sound like it is going to be a great year of AA hockey with a lot of teams in the top 30 from Western PA for Tier 2...

Not only are you correct but if the Preds, SHAHA, and Vengeance  would play Tier 2 where they belong, and Icemen would play PAHL, this would be an epic conference.  

[RicoFata]

42 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

Not only are you correct but if the Preds, SHAHA, and Vengeance  would play Tier 2 where they belong, and Icemen would play PAHL, this would be an epic conference.  

100% 

PAHL would be just as good as the CSDHL.

Top 25 or so teams are AAA, the rest are high level AA teams with a few AAA players.

[JohanHedberg1]

1 hour ago, RicoFata said:

100% 

PAHL would be just as good as the CSDHL.

Top 25 or so teams are AAA, the rest are high level AA teams with a few AAA players.

100%, its a new age in youth hockey unfortunately. I think that people are starting to see if you are not in the top 25 to maybe 40-50 tier 1 teams, you are not elite and AA teams can play with and beat you. Its not worth the $$ if you are not in the elite category.

 

Western PA tier 2 may very well be close to as good as the CSDHL this year. There was not a single top 30 team last year for Western PA tier 2. This year in 23/24 we could very well see 3 or more. 

[sadday4hockey]

Gotta love the post-tryout/pre-season my d$ck is bigger than yours enthusiasm.

Everyone is so excited about their new teams and the expectations are so high I'm getting a contact buzz.

Good luck to all the greener pasture dwellers, may all of your expectations be met.

One thing I do know for 100% certainty is that the higher the expectations, the harder that pre-Thanksgiving crash into reality hits.

 

[Icebucket]

4 hours ago, RicoFata said:

100% 

PAHL would be just as good as the CSDHL.

Top 25 or so teams are AAA, the rest are high level AA teams with a few AAA players.

Keep in mind that the CSDHL is in an area packed with way more AAA teams than here.

But it also serves as the point that there isn't nearly the player base around here to support more than 1-2 AAA teams at any age.

[JohanHedberg1]

4 hours ago, JohanHedberg1 said:

100%, its a new age in youth hockey unfortunately. I think that people are starting to see if you are not in the top 25 to maybe 40-50 tier 1 teams, you are not elite and AA teams can play with and beat you. Its not worth the $$ if you are not in the elite category.

 

Western PA tier 2 may very well be close to as good as the CSDHL this year. There was not a single top 30 team last year for Western PA tier 2. This year in 23/24 we could very well see 3 or more. 

not saying youre wrong but there is 10 "AAA" teams in the Central Region and 9 in Mid AM. Agree that there shouldnt be more than 2 in Pittsburgh but there is 6-7

[Saucey]

22 hours ago, JohanHedberg1 said:

100%, its a new age in youth hockey unfortunately. I think that people are starting to see if you are not in the top 25 to maybe 40-50 tier 1 teams, you are not elite and AA teams can play with and beat you. Its not worth the $$ if you are not in the elite category.

 

Western PA tier 2 may very well be close to as good as the CSDHL this year. There was not a single top 30 team last year for Western PA tier 2. This year in 23/24 we could very well see 3 or more. 

Yeah don't forget this is the squirt parents we were complaining about for insane behavior in the stands just a few years ago. They definitely have superstars.

[twoboys]

On 4/22/2023 at 2:55 PM, JohanHedberg1 said:

not saying youre wrong but there is 10 "AAA" teams in the Central Region and 9 in Mid AM. Agree that there shouldnt be more than 2 in Pittsburgh but there is 6-7

Pittsburgh has enough depth to have 3 AAA teams.  Especially, if the Pens are stacked with out of town kids.  Look at 16U last year with 3 top 40 teams.  I bet 16U will again have 3 good teams this year.