PAHL AA Playoffs

[Wes]

Regarding scoring/PAHL scoresheets/etc.

I was a long-time manager mostly at the AA and AAA level.  I didn't care which team was which, I tried to be as accurate as possible both ways with the stats.

What I found most of the time is the refs were lazy and would only give me 1 assist most of the time, even though I knew (easily) who had the second assist (for both teams)...

I knew how to count shots and never bullcrapped around with padding stats.

But I have literally sat next to other teams scorekeepers and they were totally clueless on shots/saves, etc.

I've been gone from the PAHL for years, but I still think the dumbest move ever was implementing Fair Play Points.

 

Edited March 6 by Wes

[Spear and Magic Helmet]

1 hour ago, Corsi said:

If the stats are published or not, parents and coaches already question scoring decisions.  I still officiate games, and at the younger age groups I get questioned more about awarding secondary assists than I do about getting calls right in a lot of games.  As far as shots goes, that has always been arbitrary even at the NHL level (I can remember the stories about the way NJ was legendary for some of the shot totals they came up with in the 2000's), so that will never be agreed upon.  

I disagree with the idea of giving out awards for scoring accomplishments because we already see players (and parents) who are ONLY concerned with how many goals their little player scores and that would only perpetuate selfish play.  The bare minimum should be that the stats should be published and updated each week during the season.  At the very least, this would provide a single source regardless if people are satisfied with the accuracy.  People aren't always happy with the accuracy of the stats the NHL publishes, that's the cost of doing business.  

Let's put it this way, if PIHL can do individual stats, so can PAHL. I'm sure the complaints are happening in PIHL. There is a policy you can put in, I'm sure. I actually thought the issue was a lack of volunteers to do the manual input of stats, but it's clear that is not the reason. Also, to your point about the NHL, I'm in a fantasy hockey league that counts hits as a stat. They have been correcting those totals for the last 3 weeks due to some review the NHL did of the hit stats. So even those guys don't get it "right". I say just publish what you have and figure out some way to deal with things being wrong. It seems nearly universal that people want to see the stats and they would much rather see stats that are 95% accurate than nothing at all.

The comment about player names on jerseys, I guess I'm old. When I was more involved, most teams did not have player names on jerseys. I will say though that uniforms have become much more elaborate and nicer...and more expensive. The uniforms I'm thinking of without names on the were owned by the organizations and they were adequate, but not nice. Sounds like that's just the times changing, but I do also feel like the names on the backs of jerseys take away from the team concept.

 

[stickboy]

Who does the scoresheet and clock in PAHL?  In PIHL they are paid employees. 

Also, someone brought up the refs. That is a big variable. After all, the scorekeeper only reports what the ref relays.  I’ve seen plenty of refs that aren’t good with getting numbers right or not bothering with second assists at all. 

[fafa fohi]

@Spear and Magic Helmet" If PIHL can do individual stats, so can PAHL. I'm sure the complaints are happening in PIHL. There is a policy you can put in, I'm sure. I actually thought the issue was a lack of volunteers to do the manual input of stats, but it's clear that is not the reason."

Both PIHL and PAHL run on the same platform - SportsEngine so the data is there, PAHL doesn't want to share it.  

Not only do PIHL stats get generated live during the game, but once the game is over those same stats appear on each player's profile on Elite Prospects.

Anything is possible if there is a willingness........the dinosaurs at PAHL have none.

I have attended a number of PIHL playoff games over the years ( only one this year ) and the atmosphere is fantastic.

[Corsi]

49 minutes ago, stickboy said:

Who does the scoresheet and clock in PAHL?  In PIHL they are paid employees. 

Also, someone brought up the refs. That is a big variable. After all, the scorekeeper only reports what the ref relays.  I’ve seen plenty of refs that aren’t good with getting numbers right or not bothering with second assists at all. 

PAHL scoresheets during the regular season are done by volunteers (usually parents from the hometeam), I believe in the PAHL playoffs it has to be a volunteer that is not affiliated with either teams that are playing, but I may be incorrect.  

[aaaahockey]

4 hours ago, stickboy said:

Who does the scoresheet and clock in PAHL?  In PIHL they are paid employees. 

Also, someone brought up the refs. That is a big variable. After all, the scorekeeper only reports what the ref relays.  I’ve seen plenty of refs that aren’t good with getting numbers right or not bothering with second assists at all. 

Yes that is a big difference.  Neutral scorekeepers and adult refs.  

[Wes]

Why has the PAHL always kept the stats a secret?  That's been going on for a decade I believe.

 

[TeamRamRod]

Last season you could see statistics on their website and I'm not sure many people even knew about it.  You had to click a few different buttons on the site to get there.  Even if they aren't 100% accurate I think it's cool for the kids to see how they stack up.  Screw the parents who want to complain, they'll always have something to whine about.

[Hockeydad9130]

9 minutes ago, TeamRamRod said:

Last season you could see statistics on their website and I'm not sure many people even knew about it.  You had to click a few different buttons on the site to get there.  Even if they aren't 100% accurate I think it's cool for the kids to see how they stack up.  Screw the parents who want to complain, they'll always have something to whine about.

I actually figured this out last season too.  Was curious how many others found the "loophole".  It still kind of works but only shows the player name and games played.

[James Gatz]

2 minutes ago, Hockeydad9130 said:

I actually figured this out last season too.  Was curious how many others found the "loophole".  It still kind of works but only shows the player name and games played.

I don't even know if this is correct this year.  For at least the level I follow, everyone's game count stopped in late December/Early January.  That's not even being input any more.  

[Hockeydad9130]

3 minutes ago, James Gatz said:

I don't even know if this is correct this year.  For at least the level I follow, everyone's game count stopped in late December/Early January.  That's not even being input any more.  

I'm guessing that was around the time they took the access away from managers.  Probably just input the scores themselves and didn't bother with anything else.

[James Gatz]

Just now, Hockeydad9130 said:

I'm guessing that was around the time they took the access away from managers.  Probably just input the scores themselves and didn't bother with anything else.

I think you are right.  The main problem with manager input was the FPP screw-ups.  Eliminate that and restore the manager input.  Problem solved.  

[YouthHockey?]

On 3/5/2024 at 7:15 PM, Icebucket said:

I watched both Armstrong games online as my son has a few friends who still play there. They have a very solid team top to bottom, but they were certainly pushed. They topped NP 3-1, but it was probably the closer game. NP had a lot of good chances, but Armstrong goalie is very big with good positioning. He makes alot of tough saves look easy.  For the Armstrong/Predators game, it was one of the greatest showings from a goalie I've seen in a while. Armstrong outmatched them pretty heavily, but that goalie stood on his head and stopped all 45+ shots through 3 periods and 2 OTs.

Regarding the Mt Lebanon coach.  If it's true that he bailed after the second period that's a shame and the parents should be angry. I believe it's the club president and long standing family tied with the club right?

The shots were 35 for Arrows and 17 for Predators.  

Edited March 7 by YouthHockey?

[Overqualified]

28 minutes ago, YouthHockey? said:

The shots were 35 for Arrows and 17 for Predators.  

What a good game

Too bad a dad from Armstrong that was working the clock was giving the Predators kids the finger and trash talking them after a 0 to 0 game

Who does that?

No pahl rep was present at game

And the president of Armstrong didn't care

[dazedandconfused]

That guy has one and only concern.

 

[hockeyisgreat]

21 minutes ago, Overqualified said:

What a good game

Too bad a dad from Armstrong that was working the clock was giving the Predators kids the finger and trash talking them after a 0 to 0 game

Who does that?

No pahl rep was present at game

And the president of Armstrong didn't care

Wow, who does that?  That's the kind of thing PAHL discipline rep should be looking at!  The Dad should never be allowed near the clock again!  Even if the Preds egged him on he needs to remain neutral!  Again that's part of why you hear about the homers at Belmont all the time.  Probably most peoples least favorite place to play!  But they do have good U18 & U16AA teams! So that probably adds to the frustration when you get beat at Belmont.

[Happy Hockey Fan]

2 hours ago, Overqualified said:

What a good game

Too bad a dad from Armstrong that was working the clock was giving the Predators kids the finger and trash talking them after a 0 to 0 game

Who does that?

No pahl rep was present at game

And the president of Armstrong didn't care

Armstrong presidents never care about their own people’s misbehavior. Just the other teams. Worst place to play as a visitor. 

[Overqualified]

2 hours ago, Overqualified said:

What a good game

Too bad a dad from Armstrong that was working the clock was giving the Predators kids the finger and trash talking them after a 0 to 0 game

Who does that?

No pahl rep was present at game

And the president of Armstrong didn't care

Maybe that guy was counting shots hard to record shots with your middle finger up

Plus let's face it no home team does there own goalie any favors by no posting the right shots

But pahl doesn't keep stats anyway 

[Saucey]

Why exactly do we need all these stats? Tier II and lower is not typically where you find your future NHLers. The league does have a huge recruitment problem, however. My team kept stats usually so the one time I needed them in over a decade of playing, I had them. I think it would just make the insane landscape....insane. I am fairly certain that a few of the posters lamenting this belonged to teams who heavily recruited.

I don't disagree that PAHL could use some updating. Kids are on social media. Even PIHL has done a great job in the last few years promoting kids and the league. If they don't want to publish individual stats, they could do other things. As can individual organizations. When a kid gets a hattie in a game or goalie gets a shut out, for example. So much is volunteer driven, however, and the fact of the matter is that people crap all over you. A lot.

[Overqualified]

2 minutes ago, Saucey said:

Why exactly do we need all these stats? Tier II and lower is not typically where you find your future NHLers. The league does have a huge recruitment problem, however. My team kept stats usually so the one time I needed them in over a decade of playing, I had them. I think it would just make the insane landscape....insane. I am fairly certain that a few of the posters lamenting this belonged to teams who heavily recruited.

I don't disagree that PAHL could use some updating. Kids are on social media. Even PIHL has done a great job in the last few years promoting kids and the league. If they don't want to publish individual stats, they could do other things. As can individual organizations. When a kid gets a hattie in a game or goalie gets a shut out, for example. So much is volunteer driven, however, and the fact of the matter is that people crap all over you. A lot.

Other sport teams use max prep or elite prospects 

But for kids to get looks from colleges this counts weather it's D1 to D3 or club 

[Saucey]

Just now, Overqualified said:

Other sport teams use max prep or elite prospects 

But for kids to get looks from colleges this counts weather it's D1 to D3 or club 

Meh. Most kids looking to play at that level can get stats from High School. D1 isn't pulling from these levels, either, and they need to go play AAA or juniors for the better programs. Maybe some D3. Club hockey is all over the place with level of play and how you make the team, anyway. Some club teams are purely run by the kids and they pick who they want to drink with. Truly.

Get a team statistician each year and do it yourself. The dad in the stands who is a problem child generally, give him a job.

I am telling you, it really doesn't matter that much in the long run.

Maybe PAHL can release to individual people their own stats at the end of the season. 

Recruiters aren't looking at kids from PAHL for D1. They just aren't.

 

[nemesis8679]

Here's another thing with stats... Besides favoring goals and shutout, who benefits?
And assists aren't going to be accurate at all. 
I know kids that score a good amount of goals. Some of them do this by cherry picking constantly and giving up a lot of goals because of it. 
I know kids that have gotten shutouts because the team in front of them held the opponents to <15 shots in a game. 

So good for them.

I also know kids who don't necessarily score all the time but play the game very well, consistently work hard creating opportunities for their team, don't take lazy penalties, excellent at killing penalties, excel at taking away the middle of the ice, etc. Kind of like the baseball player that never hits the homerun yet is almost always on first base and doesn't make errors in the field. 

Those kids really don't benefit at all from stats on some website, other than their friends or some parent saying, "oh well so-and-so really doesn't score a lot."

[stickboy]

3 hours ago, Overqualified said:

Too bad a dad from Armstrong that was working the clock was giving the Predators kids the finger and trash talking them after a 0 to 0 game

Who does that?

And this is why you can’t have stats.  Would you trust this guy?  There is at least one on every team. His kid probably has phantom secondary assist on every goal he is in there for.  As someone previously said - the parents ruin it. 

[Overqualified]

4 minutes ago, stickboy said:

And this is why you can’t have stats.  Would you trust this guy?  There is at least one on every team. His kid probably has phantom secondary assist on every goal he is in there for.  As someone previously said - the parents ruin it. 

Good point 

His kid plays on the forth line because they don't have a 5th line

[hockeyisgreat]

37 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

Here's another thing with stats... Besides favoring goals and shutout, who benefits?
And assists aren't going to be accurate at all. 
I know kids that score a good amount of goals. Some of them do this by cherry picking constantly and giving up a lot of goals because of it. 
I know kids that have gotten shutouts because the team in front of them held the opponents to <15 shots in a game. 

So good for them.

I also know kids who don't necessarily score all the time but play the game very well, consistently work hard creating opportunities for their team, don't take lazy penalties, excellent at killing penalties, excel at taking away the middle of the ice, etc. Kind of like the baseball player that never hits the homerun yet is almost always on first base and doesn't make errors in the field. 

Those kids really don't benefit at all from stats on some website, other than their friends or some parent saying, "oh well so-and-so really doesn't score a lot."

Maybe they should just all play for fun and not keep score!  But then why even have PAHL? Just let all the kids play pickup at their home rinks!  I just think if you are going to do something do it the best possible way.  There will always be parents who complain about something. That's life!  I admire the kids who play outside of PAHL and have their stats published!