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On 8/17/2022 at 7:19 PM, Stinger17 said:

At this point why would anyone consider PPE a organization that "serves" this area??? They are a Tier 1 program that operates here.

All of the organizations mentioned feed of off each other like canibals. PPE on your resume will get you at least one guranteed year at Esmark and probably two years at the Vengeance and so on down the line. Yes, none of these programs are perfect BUT they are still better than PAHL. Tier 1 is about exposure. Exposure to top competition and the opportunity to move up which is something that playing in a glorified house league cannot offer. Yes, parents brag...AAA parents sound like a$$holes to AA parents and AA parents sound the same to A parents...and so on. Get over it.

With all of the TIER 1 options in the Pittsburgh area the question people should be asking is "Why isn't PAHL developing players to fill all of these Tier 1 roster spots?" Cities with a lot less hockey history than Western PA have produced multiple competitive Tier 1 programs, think Nashville, Dallas, Florida (and yes I know they import). Why is Pittsburgh behind???

PAHL is the main feeder for "development" (cough!) for all of these programs based on volume at the younger ages. Yet it can be derived from comments across this board that the kids they are "developing" aren't good enough to move on to play "Legitimate" AAA. At the same time people suggest that kids stay in PAHL to be developed and save some money. For what??? To be "developed" enough to be accused of chasing an A or told they're not playing for a real AAA program?.....We should be grateful that there are opportunities other than PPE for local kids to play Tier 1. Please stop calling it faux.

The fact is none of these programs are really developing kids so much as it's the individual kids that put in the work and are being recruited to play and/or seek better competition on their own, both local and abroad. The really good ones play for free (wink, wink).

It's the old saying "there are hockey players and there are kids playing hockey". Hockey players want to be challenged, embrace adversity, put in the work and appreciate the journey. Kids playing hockey want to be with their buddies, have snacks, show off their participation trophies and make up excuses why they didn't make that FAUX AAA team. Figure out which one your kids are and make peace with it...

Your own words - AAA / TIER 1 is all about exposure. Yes, Exposure to real junior leagues. Unless you are playing for PPE or midget esmark, you are not getting very much if any exposure. Nobody that matters is scouting the predators, icemen etc. 

talk of a shaha kid getting drafted into the ncdc ? That’s so laughable. The advisor pulled the string. Give me 5k I’ll get your get drafted into the ncdc, I’m not even joking. 
 

fun fact - most the kids playing in the ncdc were never drafted into the leauge. It’s marketing. 
 

ever since the ncdc started I know around 12 local kids drafted into that leauge. None of them really ever played in it. A few saw a game here and there. Most got suckered into paying to play on the affiliate usphl premier team that funds the ncdc. “Next year he will be ready”, “did a great job a main camp just needs to get strong” pay your 15k.  the list goes on. Half of the kids playing in the ncdc have bought their way in, it’s part of the reason no one really considers it tier 2. It’s a money making machine, the top players best outcome is nornally ncaa d3, another money making machine. Half these schools you wouldn’t want to send your kid to for an education. The other half are so expensive you would be stupid to pay it. But hey “my kid plays ncaa hockey!”

Chattam NCAA D3 beats IUP CLUB team in OT ffs. 

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18 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Your own words - AAA / TIER 1 is all about exposure. Yes, Exposure to real junior leagues. Unless you are playing for PPE or midget esmark, you are not getting very much if any exposure. Nobody that matters is scouting the predators, icemen etc. 

talk of a shaha kid getting drafted into the ncdc ? That’s so laughable. The advisor pulled the string. Give me 5k I’ll get your get drafted into the ncdc, I’m not even joking. 
 

fun fact - most the kids playing in the ncdc were never drafted into the leauge. It’s marketing. 
 

ever since the ncdc started I know around 12 local kids drafted into that leauge. None of them really ever played in it. A few saw a game here and there. Most got suckered into paying to play on the affiliate usphl premier team that funds the ncdc. “Next year he will be ready”, “did a great job a main camp just needs to get strong” pay your 15k.  the list goes on. Half of the kids playing in the ncdc have bought their way in, it’s part of the reason no one really considers it tier 2. It’s a money making machine, the top players best outcome is nornally ncaa d3, another money making machine. Half these schools you wouldn’t want to send your kid to for an education. The other half are so expensive you would be stupid to pay it. But hey “my kid plays ncaa hockey!”

Chattam NCAA D3 beats IUP CLUB team in OT ffs. 

FYI_ Chatham beat IUP 2-0 last year with ENG and Ohio beat Chatham .............Let the Kool Aid flow ! 

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19 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Your own words - AAA / TIER 1 is all about exposure. Yes, Exposure to real junior leagues. Unless you are playing for PPE or midget esmark, you are not getting very much if any exposure. Nobody that matters is scouting the predators, icemen etc. 

talk of a shaha kid getting drafted into the ncdc ? That’s so laughable. The advisor pulled the string. Give me 5k I’ll get your get drafted into the ncdc, I’m not even joking. 
 

fun fact - most the kids playing in the ncdc were never drafted into the leauge. It’s marketing. 
 

ever since the ncdc started I know around 12 local kids drafted into that leauge. None of them really ever played in it. A few saw a game here and there. Most got suckered into paying to play on the affiliate usphl premier team that funds the ncdc. “Next year he will be ready”, “did a great job a main camp just needs to get strong” pay your 15k.  the list goes on. Half of the kids playing in the ncdc have bought their way in, it’s part of the reason no one really considers it tier 2. It’s a money making machine, the top players best outcome is nornally ncaa d3, another money making machine. Half these schools you wouldn’t want to send your kid to for an education. The other half are so expensive you would be stupid to pay it. But hey “my kid plays ncaa hockey!”

Chattam NCAA D3 beats IUP CLUB team in OT ffs. 

…….

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4 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Take a guess how many from PPE made the All-Star game

Unfortunately there is some truth in this.  Mid-Am camp at present is a waste.  Rampant favoritism and the team is picked before you even show up.  You are better off spending your time effort and money in private lessons.

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11 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

for getting drafted by NCDC

There aren't going to be any 06s on NCDC rosters.  Not for awhile.  This year's draft was a marketing stunt to promote awareness of the league to families with younger players.  A LOT of families.  Remember - the draft itself went 39 rounds and the league has a mandated 70 player protected list per team, going into training camp.  I mean, props to the kid for being recognized.  But, he'll have some work ahead of himself to see it through.

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1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

If what you mean by exposure is having PPE coaches be the evaluators at this year's MidAm camp, then yes they get the exposure.  But for anyone else with a brain that was at this years camp knew right from the start of what bullshit favoritism was going to happen the moment those coaches entered the evaluation area each day.  Take a guess how many from PPE made the All-Star game on the last day along with making Natty camp?  

Exposure because they come from PPE?  Yes. But it's a crock of shit in the process, and kids I knew nothing about but saw them out-play others got screwed because they didn't have a yellow bucket. Call it what you want.

As far as other AAA local teams go, if you are in the right tournaments and play well against top teams you will get noticed.  

And those of you demeaning the SHAHA kid ( hello @PAhockey ) for getting drafted by NCDC, then saying it was because an advisor pulled the strings?  That is laughable and you have probably seen him play for ten minutes.  Spare me - look up his stats for both AAA and HS.

PPE has been controlling the mid am camp since they bought the hornets. There was a time when they pushed all their black team kids through to! But that’s not the exposure I’m talking about. 
 

as for the shaha kid - yes, his advisor got him drafted. If you don’t understand how they work or need one for your kid, I can give you a few contacts. Toss down 5-15k a year, they will get your kid drafted in some leauges, get you invited to some nahl and ushl main camps. They will open doors. Depends what you want to pay. Like i said, give me 5k I’ll get your kid drafted into the ncdc. It’s such a joke, Number #389 taken in a 12 team league lmao. If you payed attention to my original post, most kids playing in the ncdc were never drafted to that league. 

his “AAA” stats - I’ve seen esmark padded stats twice that. Means nothing. He played 15u at shaha, the top players for his age that will end up in leauges like the ushl played 16u. 
 

I’m sure he’s a nice player, in the end, he will end up at the same places 99% of the kids playing do. 

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2 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

FYI_ Chatham beat IUP 2-0 last year with ENG and Ohio beat Chatham .............Let the Kool Aid flow ! 

Correctted. Just recalled they won by one goal. I didn’t hear Ohio beat Chattam but that doesn’t surprise me at all. 

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2 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Your own words - AAA / TIER 1 is all about exposure. Yes, Exposure to real junior leagues. Unless you are playing for PPE or midget esmark, you are not getting very much if any exposure. Nobody that matters is scouting the predators, icemen etc. 

 

I agree that the PPE and Esmark teams are, if I may paraphrase, destination teams for scouts. The top teams and I'm not putting a number on them, will always draw. However they don't always play each other which opens the door for players from "lesser" programs to get noticed, be it scheduled games, tournaments or showcases. The old saying about "if your good enought they will find you" only applies if you play where they are looking. None of us would expect to see scouts at an A Major game, it's not gonna happen. 

Generally it's the top kids on a given team that get the looks. So I ask, is it better to be buried on the third or fourth line of a team like PPE or playing top line minutes on a lesser AAA team? I think this is one of the main reasons why the alternative programs exist.

Random thought....Why doesn't Esmark start running 2 teams for 15u, 16u and 18u? Their tryout numbers would support it.

 

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45 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

PPE has been controlling the mid am camp since they bought the hornets. There was a time when they pushed all their black team kids through to! But that’s not the exposure I’m talking about. 
 

as for the shaha kid - yes, his advisor got him drafted. If you don’t understand how they work or need one for your kid, I can give you a few contacts. Toss down 5-15k a year, they will get your kid drafted in some leauges, get you invited to some nahl and ushl main camps. They will open doors. Depends what you want to pay. Like i said, give me 5k I’ll get your kid drafted into the ncdc. It’s such a joke, Number #389 taken in a 12 team league lmao. If you payed attention to my original post, most kids playing in the ncdc were never drafted to that league. 

his “AAA” stats - I’ve seen esmark padded stats twice that. Means nothing. He played 15u at shaha, the top players for his age that will end up in leauges like the ushl played 16u. 
 

I’m sure he’s a nice player, in the end, he will end up at the same places 99% of the kids playing do. 

Danner, do you know for a fact that the SHAHA kid has an advisor?  Since you know them personally why don't you tell us who some of the advisors in Western PA are?  I just don't understand why you feel the need to cast such a negative outlook on to playing hockey in Western Pa.  Do you think that kids in Western Pa shouldn't even try to play Juniors? Why waste the money! Right?  Better off putting it in the college fund?

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3 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Your own words - AAA / TIER 1 is all about exposure. Yes, Exposure to real junior leagues. Unless you are playing for PPE or midget esmark, you are not getting very much if any exposure. Nobody that matters is scouting the predators, icemen etc. 

talk of a shaha kid getting drafted into the ncdc ? That’s so laughable. The advisor pulled the string. Give me 5k I’ll get your get drafted into the ncdc, I’m not even joking. 
 

fun fact - most the kids playing in the ncdc were never drafted into the leauge. It’s marketing. 
 

ever since the ncdc started I know around 12 local kids drafted into that leauge. None of them really ever played in it. A few saw a game here and there. Most got suckered into paying to play on the affiliate usphl premier team that funds the ncdc. “Next year he will be ready”, “did a great job a main camp just needs to get strong” pay your 15k.  the list goes on. Half of the kids playing in the ncdc have bought their way in, it’s part of the reason no one really considers it tier 2. It’s a money making machine, the top players best outcome is nornally ncaa d3, another money making machine. Half these schools you wouldn’t want to send your kid to for an education. The other half are so expensive you would be stupid to pay it. But hey “my kid plays ncaa hockey!”

Chattam NCAA D3 beats IUP CLUB team in OT ffs. 

While the NCDC hasn’t moved a ton of kids to D1 it certainly has happened. And they seem to be getting more and more kids to that level the longer the league exists. While it may not produce the most D1 players of all the junior leagues it does produce them. I don’t understand why you knock it so much. It is a newer league that is still developing. And look for a kid from the area making it to D1 from the NCDC in the next couple of years. 

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@Danner27 And I quote - “his “AAA” stats - I’ve seen esmark padded stats twice that. Means nothing. He played 15u at shaha, the top players for his age that will end up in leauges like the ushl played 16u.”

This is the kind of garbage that I’m talking about, trashing a now 16 year old kid that you have never seen play.  Douchebag move if you ask me  

Everyone here knows yours and your kids story as you’ve said it here at nauseam on these pages a hundred times.  Maybe since your All-Star aged out maybe find a better hobby besides disparaging youth hockey players you know nothing about. 
 

 

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PPE has no say currently in mid-am camps.  To my knowledge,  the current 07’ coach was there scouting players because PPE couldn’t fill a roster at that birth-year after tryouts.  They were there looking for what they call ‘customers’,  not evaluating.  They’re feeling the effects of treating locals like shit,  and the outside hockey community becoming aware that Cranberry isn’t the place to go if you want your kid developed past peewee’s.  Even the outside kids/families are seeing past all the bravado,  smoke and mirrors. 

Now the academy is taking trips to Sweden, and holding ‘camps’ in an effort to expand their customer base.  American kids and Canadian kids aren’t taking the bait at the rate they would like.  Sad part is there are some families up there right now paying top dollar while the director takes a vacation over seas to recruit said families replacements. 

Anyway, if you think USA hockey is evaluating players based on the pecking order the parents and organizations have the kids in,  you’re wrong.  Some of those guys roll their eyes at  PPE.  I’ve personally found the USA hockey process to be one of the more honest and respectable selection processes.  Whether they are right or wrong about a kid,  they aren’t taking a phone call from someone at PPE on who to advance.  

There certainly are other ‘prestigious’ camps and selective processes out there that parents, coaches, dad coaches, dad coaches buddies, parents money can all influence__ but mid am is not that by any stretch. Atleast not currently. 

 

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10 hours ago, ChiefKeef said:

PPE has no say currently in mid-am camps.  To my knowledge,  the current 07’ coach was there scouting players because PPE couldn’t fill a roster at that birth-year after tryouts.  They were there looking for what they call ‘customers’,  not evaluating.  They’re feeling the effects of treating locals like shit,  and the outside hockey community becoming aware that Cranberry isn’t the place to go if you want your kid developed past peewee’s.  Even the outside kids/families are seeing past all the bravado,  smoke and mirrors. 

Now the academy is taking trips to Sweden, and holding ‘camps’ in an effort to expand their customer base.  American kids and Canadian kids aren’t taking the bait at the rate they would like.  Sad part is there are some families up there right now paying top dollar while the director takes a vacation over seas to recruit said families replacements. 

Anyway, if you think USA hockey is evaluating players based on the pecking order the parents and organizations have the kids in,  you’re wrong.  Some of those guys roll their eyes at  PPE.  I’ve personally found the USA hockey process to be one of the more honest and respectable selection processes.  Whether they are right or wrong about a kid,  they aren’t taking a phone call from someone at PPE on who to advance.  

There certainly are other ‘prestigious’ camps and selective processes out there that parents, coaches, dad coaches, dad coaches buddies, parents money can all influence__ but mid am is not that by any stretch. Atleast not currently. 

 

PPE has no say currently in mid-am camps.”

Bullshit. . 

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57 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

PPE has no say currently in mid-am camps.”

Bullshit.  When PPE head coaches are evaluators at Mid Ams they absolutely have influence on who makes it to the All-Star games and to Natty Camp.  How could they not?   I’m not talking about them scouting, I’m talking about them being evaluators.  I saw it with my own eyes and so did everyone else that was there in Toledo. 

They were not there evaluating players for Mid-Am selection.  They were taking advantage of an opportunity to see kids and possibly find families to add to the program. 
 

Does anyone really think they wouldn’t be there  to see what the landscape is in surrounding states?  Especially when they have an incomplete 07 roster in April?  Those mid-am kids are all fair game and low hanging fruit for PPE.  Again, they were there for leads on potential ‘customers’. 
 

Your logic about this is completely flawed as well. An 07 Dmen from Esmark who was cut by PPE, made the final USA camp.  You don’t think the PPE would have snuck in one of their kids if they were calling the shots? 
 

Anyone who’s dealt with PPE for more than two years knows that those guys don’t give a single shit about anything that goes on outside of Cranberry.  They are in their own little fantasy land where they are the center of their own little hockey universe.  Where they sit on this peda-stool behind a curtain, like the wizard of oz, because that’s where people like you put them by thinking they are some force to be reckoned with.  Pulling strings at USA hockey. 

They couldn’t care less who makes it where. As I always say, look at their overall results with moving kids on.  That’s not the business model.  The business model is to sit back and let the program run itself.  Attach their name to can’t miss players,  take credit for ‘developing’ them and use those names to market to the 99% who they have zero intention on actually developing long term.  


 



 

 

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37 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

They were not there evaluating players for Mid-Am selection from what I am aware of.  They were simply taking advantage of an opportunity to see kids and possibly find families to add to the program. 
 

Does anyone really think they wouldn’t be there  to see what the landscape is in surrounding states?  Especially when they have an incomplete 07 roster in April?  Those kids are all fair game and low hanging fruit for PPE.  Again, they were there for leads on potential ‘customers’. 
 

Your logic about this is completely flawed as well. An 07 Dmen from Esmark who was cut by PPE, made the final USA camp.  You don’t think the PPE would have snuck in one of their kids if they were calling the shots? 
 

Anyone who’s dealt with PPE for more than two years knows that those guys don’t give a single shit about anything that goes on outside of Cranberry.  They are in their own little fantasy land there where they are the center of their own little hockey universe.  Where they sit on this peda-stool behind a curtain in OZ because that’s where people like you put them by thinking they are powerful lol 

They couldn’t care less who makes it where. As I always say, look at their overall results with moving kids on.  That’s not the business model.  The business model is to sit back and let the program run itself.  Attach their name to can’t miss players,  take credit for ‘developing’ them and use those names to market to the 99% who they have zero intention on actually developing long term.  


 



 

 

Oh boy, should we start the putting the facts out and taking them down before we get sued ? 😂😂

 

there was a time when PPE was also the evaluators. Admittitly, it’s been a few years since I’ve been to one of those, maybe it’s changed lately, maybe culver flipping out a few years back did something. PPE did control who moved out of Sylvania for years. There was big good D culver had at that special ppe BY that got completly screwed. Culver want nuts that year on usa hockey & mid am about ppe black kids being pushed through over this kid who was clearly the best player on the ice. he’s now in the ushl. This was the select 15 camp if i recall correctly. 

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7 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

@Danner27 And I quote - “his “AAA” stats - I’ve seen esmark padded stats twice that. Means nothing. He played 15u at shaha, the top players for his age that will end up in leauges like the ushl played 16u.”

This is the kind of garbage that I’m talking about, trashing a now 16 year old kid that you have never seen play.  Douchebag move if you ask me  

Everyone here knows yours and your kids story as you’ve said it here at nauseam on these pages a hundred times.  Maybe since your All-Star aged out maybe find a better hobby besides disparaging youth hockey players you know nothing about. 
 

 

Call it what you want. It’s facts. I stated I’m sure he’s nice looking player. 

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I was told they were there on business when this came up.  There is always quite a few team personnel there from other programs as well.  Every year. 
 

Regarding the magical birthyear I have no doubt some bullshit went on there.  Unfortunately, there is someone powerful enough to make moves there, whether they were made or not. That is an exception,  the current format at PPE isn’t built like that. 

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8 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

While the NCDC hasn’t moved a ton of kids to D1 it certainly has happened. And they seem to be getting more and more kids to that level the longer the league exists. While it may not produce the most D1 players of all the junior leagues it does produce them. I don’t understand why you knock it so much. It is a newer league that is still developing. And look for a kid from the area making it to D1 from the NCDC in the next couple of years. 

We’ve discussed this player, his goal is to get out of the ncdc and try to make it back to the nahl. He’s averaging almost a PPG in the ncdc, he couldn’t even get playing time in the nahl. Shows you the difference in the leauges. He’s a great player. 
 

when you see those stats of players the ncdc moved into ncaa d1, the majority of the time the player has a quick stop in the ncdc. Played half a season when they were 18, got picked up by the nahl. The ncdc didn’t produce the player. Have you ever seen an ncdc contract ? They are absurd. 

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7 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Danner, do you know for a fact that the SHAHA kid has an advisor?  Since you know them personally why don't you tell us who some of the advisors in Western PA are?  I just don't understand why you feel the need to cast such a negative outlook on to playing hockey in Western Pa.  Do you think that kids in Western Pa shouldn't even try to play Juniors? Why waste the money! Right?  Better off putting it in the college fund?

Yes. 
 

no negative outlook on playing hockey. Just calling out the bs and giving facts how things work. 
 

as for juniors, all tier 3 is a waste of money, your kid more than likely won’t advance to a real leauge. The EHL is the best of tier 3, they produce the most  ncaa d3 players of those pay to play leauges. 

yes, you would be better sticking that 15-20k in a college fund. It would pay for a year of college. 

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5 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

I was told they were there on business.  There were quite a few team personnel there from other programs as well.  
 

Regarding the magical birthyear I have no doubt some bullshit went on there.  Unfortunately, there is someone powerful enough to make moves there, whether they were made or not. 

What was funny about that year the culver kid got screwed, a month later at the main camp in upstate New York, usa hockey made a statement and cut every single PPE kid black or yellow helmet after the first two days. None of them even made it to the weekend for real games (I think they called it all star weekend back then). 

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5 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Yes. 
 

no negative outlook on playing hockey. Just calling out the bs and giving facts how things work. 
 

as for juniors, all tier 3 is a waste of money, your kid more than likely won’t advance to a real leauge. The EHL is the best of tier 3, they produce the most  ncaa d3 players of those pay to play leauges. 

yes, you would be better sticking that 15-20k in a college fund. It would pay for a year of college. 

Ok I will try this one more time!  I want to waste my money!  Give me the names of some advisors in Western Pa.  Or are you just so bitter you like to put everyone who trys to play juniors down!  It is interesting though that no one here is willing to name any advisors.  Probably for fear of being ridiculed by you!

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5 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Ok I will try this one more time!  I want to waste my money!  Give me the names of some advisors in Western Pa.  Or are you just so bitter you like to put everyone who trys to play juniors down!  It is interesting though that no one here is willing to name any advisors.  Probably for fear of being ridiculed by you!

I’m not putting local guys names on here, I know of 3 here.  Google hockey advisors if you really want one. You’ll see the bigger known guys and companies. Stay away from the Facebook advisor and the guy that runs the junior hockey news. If your kid is playing AAA (even for the faux teams) chances are high at your next Michigan tournament you’ll be approached by one. probably more advisors than there are youth coaches these days. Some are good, most are con artists. 

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On 8/20/2022 at 9:32 AM, Danner27 said:

I’m not putting local guys names on here, I know of 3 here.  Google hockey advisors if you really want one. You’ll see the bigger known guys and companies. Stay away from the Facebook advisor and the guy that runs the junior hockey news. If your kid is playing AAA (even for the faux teams) chances are high at your next Michigan tournament you’ll be approached by one. probably more advisors than there are youth coaches these days. Some are good, most are con artists. 

This is the type of information that some parents would like to have.   Why don't you name some advisors.   A local one for many is better than an out of state one. 

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49 minutes ago, twoboys said:

This is the type of information that some parents would like to have.   Why don't you name some advisors.   A local one for many is better than an out of state one. 

Because the local guys I know who do it are let’s just say not worth your money with out slandering them. JDM is a national group and by far the best at this stuff. If you really want to put out that kind of money contact them. 
 

like I said, starting around 15U these guys are at every big tournament looking for players. It’s impossible these days not to be approached by them if your kid is half decent. 

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