Esmark B Team

[Icebucket]

33 minutes ago, HockeyFan6687 said:

What is the intended goal of this when there will be mid to low level A players on it with little experience?   It’s really a shame these days that these “experts” are taking advantage of families that really have no clue what they are really getting into and for the ridiculous expense.  The hockey system is broken.  Integrity is sacrificed for $$$$.  

It really is wild.

However. I've noticed a recent trend of better coaches landing with AA PAHL teams. Right now people are still opting for that extra A and some always will, but I'm hopeful that people will start to notice that a handful of AA programs actually have higher level coaching than the faux AAA programs.

[RJUSHL]

Better coaching is a trend I've noticed in bantam and midget levels in PAHL. Foxes are getting better at this although they've brought in a few that haven't impressed. Rebellion seems to be doing a really nice job with this, especially the '09 team with Shell, Tingle, and the other Peters Varsity coaches all coaching that team together. North Pitt also seems to be doing a better job with coaching this time around. Nice to see orgs get away from daddy ball for the older AA teams.

[zam]

It's interesting how there doesn't seem to be a hierarchy of organizations in this area anymore. You basically just have Pens followed by a number of vultures picking at the scraps. Esmark used to have second place locked down but judging by the lateral movement from one "AAA" team to another everybody is just unhappy. Must be the grass is greener theory. Shaha going to Vengeance, Vengeance going to Esmark, Esmark going to Preds, Preds going to Vengeance. Hornets going to Shaha. I assume Icemen are in this mix somewhere also, unless going there is the point of no return. 

You never seem to hear of kids from these teams going to PPE. Players just move around amongst these other 4 or 5 teams getting a taste of the flavor of the month. The kids that do emerge and are able to compete at a true AAA level have to go play for someone like the Barons or (if these rumors are true) Long Island. 

Are there just too many options, and none of them good?

I think if one of these 5 organizations is able to have sustained success at multiple birth years and advance some kids to higher levels it would separate itself from the rest. Until then I guess the merry go round will continue.

[Lucky17]

3 minutes ago, zam said:

It's interesting how there doesn't seem to be a hierarchy of organizations in this area anymore. You basically just have Pens followed by a number of vultures picking at the scraps. Esmark used to have second place locked down but judging by the lateral movement from one "AAA" team to another everybody is just unhappy. Must be the grass is greener theory. Shaha going to Vengeance, Vengeance going to Esmark, Esmark going to Preds, Preds going to Vengeance. Hornets going to Shaha. I assume Icemen are in this mix somewhere also, unless going there is the point of no return. 

You never seem to hear of kids from these teams going to PPE. Players just move around amongst these other 4 or 5 teams getting a taste of the flavor of the month. The kids that do emerge and are able to compete at a true AAA level have to go play for someone like the Barons or (if these rumors are true) Long Island. 

Are there just too many options, and none of them good?

I think if one of these 5 organizations is able to have sustained success at multiple birth years and advance some kids to higher levels it would separate itself from the rest. Until then I guess the merry go round will continue.

Or maybe as suggested on another post, just maybe, players will start to come back to AA (gasp)

[aaaahockey]

46 minutes ago, zam said:

It's interesting how there doesn't seem to be a hierarchy of organizations in this area anymore. You basically just have Pens followed by a number of vultures picking at the scraps. Esmark used to have second place locked down but judging by the lateral movement from one "AAA" team to another everybody is just unhappy. Must be the grass is greener theory. Shaha going to Vengeance, Vengeance going to Esmark, Esmark going to Preds, Preds going to Vengeance. Hornets going to Shaha. I assume Icemen are in this mix somewhere also, unless going there is the point of no return. 

You never seem to hear of kids from these teams going to PPE. Players just move around amongst these other 4 or 5 teams getting a taste of the flavor of the month. The kids that do emerge and are able to compete at a true AAA level have to go play for someone like the Barons or (if these rumors are true) Long Island. 

Are there just too many options, and none of them good?

I think if one of these 5 organizations is able to have sustained success at multiple birth years and advance some kids to higher levels it would separate itself from the rest. Until then I guess the merry go round will continue.

I think not going to Pens largely has to do with people not wanting to sell their entire souls to do Excel and/or North Catholic.  Pens isn't a team anymore it's a lifestyle. 

[YardSale]

3 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

Better coaching is a trend I've noticed in bantam and midget levels in PAHL. Foxes are getting better at this although they've brought in a few that haven't impressed. Rebellion seems to be doing a really nice job with this, especially the '09 team with Shell, Tingle, and the other Peters Varsity coaches all coaching that team together. North Pitt also seems to be doing a better job with coaching this time around. Nice to see orgs get away from daddy ball for the older AA teams.

I do question the inference that paid coaches are better than “daddy ball” coaches.  I’ve seen more than enough paid coaches develop a system of pay to play forcing players to sign up for their skill sessions to earn playing time.  There are some very good parent coaches out there, they just happen to have a kid that plays. There are obviously very good paid coaches and very bad parent coaches as well.  Having a kid on the team or not doesn’t tell you anything about the quality of the coach.

[Spear and Magic Helmet]

18 hours ago, Hattrick Swayze said:

They canceled the tryout tonight. Top 4 players and both goalies left so assuming the coach pulled the plug as the team was not going to be as competitive as he’d like it to be. 

Who was the coach of that team? Was that Taibi's team?

[forbin]

1 hour ago, YardSale said:

I’ve seen more than enough paid coaches develop a system of pay to play forcing players to sign up for their skill sessions to earn playing time.  

This is every single paid coach at preds. 

[Hattrick Swayze]

18 minutes ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

Who was the coach of that team? Was that Taibi's team?

Yes

[Lifelongbender]

22 minutes ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

Who was the coach of that team? Was that Taibi's team?

Yes. Unbelievable that there are players who think they'll find better coaching than Taibi. And also it's hard to believe that anyone would want to leave such a successful team. Someone above referred to the "grass is greener" phenomenon. I think that's the case. Hockey is somehow continuing to become more and more mercenary over the years.

[YardSale]

58 minutes ago, forbin said:

This is every single paid coach at preds. 

It definitely doesn’t stop outside the walls of Ice Castle.  We avoid teams with paid coaches who also give private lessons like the plague.  Learned my lesson once, never again.

[nemesis8679]

Reading the last several replies here, some random thoughts:

Paid coach, parent coach... if they're a good coach it's irrelevant if they're paid or parent. Hell, I know of paid coaches that never had hockey experience over playing in-line, and parent coaches who at one time played high level college or professional hockey. Do they know what they're doing, are they fair? That's the questions that are important. But telling your neighbors that your son's coach is the left wing's dad doesn't sound as cool as telling them how the coach is some part-time professional coach, right? 

 

Regarding Pens, as mentioned above, it's not just a hockey team it's a lifestyle. There's a lot of barriers there at older ages that make other options look better. So I'm sure tons of good players are off the table before getting on the table just on cost and commitment. 

 

On the subject of the AAA revolving door. Most parents (and some kids) think they're looking at a future of moving right to high level juniors, NCAA, and I'm certain some think they'll be in the NHL draft as soon as they turn 18. When they play at "x" organization and nothing really happens during the season aside from their team getting a number ranking on MHR, they aren't on the power play, or whatever grievance they have, they think it will be different on another team so they try to go there. With the number of "AAA" teams in the area, you can do this practically every year. And if you run out of teams, you can just start back where you started. This is all applicable of the revolving doors in AA and A also. 

 

Also, organizations at every level should put a ban on any coach coaching a team in the org, and offering skills lessons outside of team functions to any players they coach. Not saying they shouldn't be allowed to operate skills lessons, just not to players on their team. Under no circumstance is this a good scenario for anybody but the coach. It shouldn't need to be explained any further the ways in which this is a bad idea.  There's plenty of skills coaches around that you shouldn't need to be going to your coach for it. 

 

Most importantly- it's a game, it should be fun time for your kid. With the pressures/stress of school, girlfriends/boyfriends, looking at colleges, making time for other hobbies & interests, and plain being a kid growing up in the times we have today... hockey should be a place where kids can forget all that stuff, have fun, and NOT be stressed out over it. 

[Icebucket]

I don't at all think having a paid coach automatically makes it better at all. There are plenty of good coaches out there who happen to have kids playing. Why not help out your own kids team if that's an option?

My initial comment was more aiming at how some of the local AA teams have significantly better coaches than the paid coaches on many of the faux AAA teams.

[Clee Torres]

5 hours ago, Lifelongbender said:

Yes. Unbelievable that there are players who think they'll find better coaching than Taibi. And also it's hard to believe that anyone would want to leave such a successful team. Someone above referred to the "grass is greener" phenomenon. I think that's the case. Hockey is somehow continuing to become more and more mercenary over the years.

?

[Clee Torres]

At a top 50 AAA program you have to have  non parent coaches. They also need paid. If you can’t afford it understood play AA. It’s hard to believe anyone would think a non parent coach would coach a team for free with lunatic parents that are mostly not realistic with there kids level he should play at. 

[YardSale]

23 minutes ago, Clee Torres said:

At a top 50 AAA program you have to have  non parent coaches. They also need paid. If you can’t afford it understood play AA. It’s hard to believe anyone would think a non parent coach would coach a team for free with lunatic parents that are mostly not realistic with there kids level he should play at. 

I don’t think anyone suggested they should not be paid.  The point was they shouldn’t be allowed to extort the players with paid private lessons in return for playing time.

[Clee Torres]

42 minutes ago, YardSale said:

I don’t think anyone suggested they should not be paid.  The point was they shouldn’t be allowed to extort the players with paid private lessons in return for playing time.

I agree with that

[aaaahockey]

8 hours ago, Lifelongbender said:

Yes. Unbelievable that there are players who think they'll find better coaching than Taibi. 

This right here is why the whole thing blows my mind. 

[hockeyisgreat]

8 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

This right here is why the whole thing blows my mind. 

 

But why pull the rug out from under the kids that have played for them for years?  Or maybe they should have cancelled the program before the last day of tryouts.  Also for most 06's in the area there was not much sense to go tryout there as they pretty much kept the same core group with only a few spots available.  I can't wait to see the Pens roster!  I bet there aren't 5 local kids on the U18 team!

[hockeyisgreat]

I bet going to a real tryout for some of those 06 SHAHA kids was a real shocker.  Will be interesting to see how many make the Vengenace team and where the rest end up!

[fafa fohi]

43 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I bet going to a real tryout for some of those 06 SHAHA kids was a real shocker.  Will be interesting to see how many make the Vengenace team and where the rest end up!

"Real tryout?"  That team was ranked 20th in the country at the end of the season and beat numerous top 10 teams along with beating PPE twice.

[hockeyisgreat]

27 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

"Real tryout?"  That team was ranked 20th in the country at the end of the season and beat numerous top 10 teams along with beating PPE twice.

What I mean is that they stayed together without much movement from year to year. Only a few kids were added or subtracted!  How much pressure do you think they had to make the team?  Taibi was loyal to them and they were loyal to him!  That was a great situation for those kids unlike Pens that are always looking to replace anyone and everyone.

[Saucey]

I am sure that team disbanding was not because of the coach. When you lose key players and presumably there was nothing there to replace them, those chasing will go somewhere else. A goalie is really important. Or maybe it was the coach, didn't have someone lined up to replace them.

Parents and families also get a narrative going.... it's not that my kid is not AAA talent, it was this one coach or this one player, but for that we would have had a great season! So they go somewhere else the next year and rinse repeat. Pretty much the grass is greener. Our geography also just still plays into it, I think. It's not an easy sell to get from a different direction to play at YMCA. 

[fafa fohi]

17 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

What I mean is that they stayed together without much movement from year to year. Only a few kids were added or subtracted!  How much pressure do you think they had to make the team?  Taibi was loyal to them and they were loyal to him!  That was a great situation for those kids unlike Pens that are always looking to replace anyone and everyone.

Fair enough. 

[aaaahockey]

40 minutes ago, Saucey said:

It's not an easy sell to get from a different direction to play at YMCA. 

This is a big point. If you don't live in Bethel/Peters/USC it's a pain in the rear.