USA Hockey Nationals start today!

[hockeydadx3]

16 hours ago, Pucks11 said:

Yep, because those 2 Pittsburgh kids you lost to yesterday sure do suck or maybe the one at Shattuck or even the goalie on Gilmours prep team that beat the 18u Pens this year or the 3 that were at BK this year. Just naming a few. 4 of them left Pens on their own and the other 3 never wanted to play there even though they were asked to every year. Those 2 goalies alone makes my leftovers team better.

 

But it's Pens Elite or NOTHING arrrrrrrrg!

Wow, there is a guy that pays a TON of attention to the Pens program without having a kid on a team. Any other sound data points you have to prove your point?

[Pucks11]

39 minutes ago, Carl Racki said:

Agree, lots of top players that could make the Pens roster that are from Pittsburgh  choose to not play there for different reasons.  Some because they don't want to spend the money on Excel, North Catholic,....  Not sure what the total cost would be for a year with everything including travel costs but would guess around $30,000.  It is a great program with good coaches but costs a lot of money. 

Look at their 2007 birth year team.  They lost a lot of their top players for that reason. Not bottom players.   They are still a great team.  If you take away the top 3-5 players there is not much difference between the rest and top AA players.  I have seen this for years. Believe me.  Mommy's and Daddy's that are spending lots of money don't want to believe that though.  It is a great program but does cost a lot of money. 

If you could get the next best group of 15-17 kids in Western PA all on the same team I think they would usually be competitive with great coaching.  The problem is it is tough to find parents of all the top players that are crazy enough to drive past 5 rinks to build a team like that.  Most people that crazy are willing to remortgage their house to play Pens, Prep,....

Some teams have done it.  2006 SHAHA team, 2008 Vengeance team.   

Even the 07 lost to Esmark this year in the regular season.

The biggest problem is the parents when it comes to this.

[Pucks11]

38 minutes ago, hockeydadx3 said:

Wow, there is a guy that pays a TON of attention to the Pens program without having a kid on a team. Any other sound data points you have to prove your point?

Most of the kids are friends and have played with/against each other since they were 5 or 6 years old.

I don't need anymore data, multiple people have backed my statements while you still drink the PPE Kool Aid (PPE or NOTHING).

Kids don't suck that don't play for Pens, that's all.

[Happy Hockey Fan]

I have heard that the Pens are removing the rules that their kids have to attend North Catholic and Excel Academy. Anyone else? 

[aaaahockey]

19 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I have heard that the Pens are removing the rules that their kids have to attend North Catholic and Excel Academy. Anyone else? 

They were never really "rules" anyway.   So not sure what they would change except tell people they arent "rules".  

[sadday4hockey]

Don't know about that but apparently the girls program is hemorrhaging players to out of area teams.

[aaaahockey]

2 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Don't know about that but apparently the girls program is hemorrhaging players to out of area teams.

I've heard the same.  Not necessarily out of area but that they can't field teams at certain levels.  

[Happy Hockey Fan]

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

They were never really "rules" anyway.   So not sure what they would change except tell people they arent "rules".  

If they weren’t rules what were they? Just suggestions? Because not one kid that played U18 attended school elsewhere. 

[Pucks11]

2 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

If they weren’t rules what were they? Just suggestions? Because not one kid that played U18 attended school elsewhere. 

Strongly suggested or your roster spot may be up for grabs💪🏻💪🏻, lol.

[Pucks11]

3 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

I've heard the same.  Not necessarily out of area but that they can't field teams at certain levels.  

Didn't they kick out all of the Boys Black feeder teams to build their girls program up?

Would you be happy paying all that money to play half your schedule against A/AA teams. That's not very "Elite".

[nemesis8679]

2 hours ago, Pucks11 said:

Didn't they kick out all of the Boys Black feeder teams to build their girls program up?

Would you be happy paying all that money to play half your schedule against A/AA teams. That's not very "Elite".

More orgs are starting to offer girl's programs.

[fafa fohi]

9 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

If they weren’t rules what were they? Just suggestions? Because not one kid that played U18 attended school elsewhere. 

Well, there were at least two players on the U18 team that attended elsewhere - PR and DL.

[YardSale]

11 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

I've heard the same.  Not necessarily out of area but that they can't field teams at certain levels.  

Where are they not able to field teams?

[aaaahockey]

1 hour ago, YardSale said:

Where are they not able to field teams?

I heard younger ages mostly.  Again I don't have a connection there but I heard they ended up taking a lot of girls on top teams that normally wouldn't make it and had to actually backfill some of the second team rosters after tryouts.   Rumor?  Maybe?  But someone else on the board saying that they heard something similar.  Anyone have a daughter up there with more insight? 

[Corsi]

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

I heard younger ages mostly.  Again I don't have a connection there but I heard they ended up taking a lot of girls on top teams that normally wouldn't make it and had to actually backfill some of the second team rosters after tryouts.   Rumor?  Maybe?  But someone else on the board saying that they heard something similar.  Anyone have a daughter up there with more insight? 

I heard something very similar.  

[Carl Racki]

Some kids do not go to North Catholic but I believe all of them do Excell once they are  in 9th grade.  Pretty sure

[Happy Hockey Fan]

7 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Well, there were at least two players on the U18 team that attended elsewhere - PR and DL.

I was lead to believe that they had to go there. But I guess there are exceptions. 

[nemesis8679]

12 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I was lead to believe that they had to go there. But I guess there are exceptions. 

If you don't, you run the risk to be replaced by someone who will.

[aaaahockey]

48 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I was lead to believe that they had to go there. But I guess there are exceptions. 

 

35 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

If you don't, you run the risk to be replaced by someone who will.

U18 is a bit of a different animal. That's after the big dogs have already skipped town generally. 

[Corsi]

From what I understand it is not mandatory but it is highly encouraged for the boys teams.  The girls seems to operate slightly differently, but I have heard from a parent that has a girl playing there that they are also highly encouraged to do Excel as well.  

[Icebucket]

If a top end players wants to pass on Excel I think they'd be fine, but when they are picking teams you better believe every bottom half player is in excel. Replacing players 15, 17, and 18 (who don't want to do excel) with 20, 22, and 24 (who do excel) would 100% happen.

[zam]

Can we just get a permanent thread pinned at the top called "Pens Elite Problems"??

It's the most amazing thing about this message board! There are roughly six or seven "current" threads, they all have different headings, but every one of them has turned to something related to Penns Elite. And nearly every one of the posts starts with "I think" or "I heard". With so many contradicting theories from one thread to the other.

One thread says they only let locals play the younger ages and it's a fundraiser for the program and they replace all the local kids by the older ages, but another says they don't care about 18U so they let locals play without going to North Catholic. 

One thread says all the best kids leave town to go play elsewhere. Another thread says all the best kids are out of towners.  One thread says Excel and North Catholic aren't "required" for the good players that it's typically the 15,16 and 17, 18th best players have to do Excel.  

So what I gather it's a Fundraiser thru Middle School. Strict North Catholic requirement for freshmen and sophomores, money grab with a bunch of schmo's playing Junior and Senior year.

[Saucey]

12 minutes ago, zam said:

Can we just get a permanent thread pinned at the top called "Pens Elite Problems"??

It's the most amazing thing about this message board! There are roughly six or seven "current" threads, they all have different headings, but every one of them has turned to something related to Penns Elite. And nearly every one of the posts starts with "I think" or "I heard". With so many contradicting theories from one thread to the other.

One thread says they only let locals play the younger ages and it's a fundraiser for the program and they replace all the local kids by the older ages, but another says they don't care about 18U so they let locals play without going to North Catholic. 

One thread says all the best kids leave town to go play elsewhere. Another thread says all the best kids are out of towners.  One thread says Excel and North Catholic aren't "required" for the good players that it's typically the 15,16 and 17, 18th best players have to do Excel.  

So what I gather it's a Fundraiser thru Middle School. Strict North Catholic requirement for freshmen and sophomores, money grab with a bunch of schmo's playing Junior and Senior year.

Why bother summarizing without adding to a discussion?

[Rewster]

On 4/10/2024 at 1:24 PM, Saucey said:

Why bother summarizing without adding to a discussion?

Their summary just caught me up to speed in a couple of paragraphs…

I think that’s what they call, “unintended consequences.” While attempting to point out problems without real solutions; the end result is actually galvanizing the topic at hand. Which doesn’t really make it go away…but only adds to its attention.
 

In any event, I’d add to this by pointing out that other “developing hockey markets” in the states are trying to model their AAA programs similarly to PPE (or vice-versa). TPH has academy’s located in FLA, AZ, Tennessee, and several places in the Midwest (Michigan, Iowa, Ohio, etc) as well. I’m not sure if it’s sustainable. But, it is occurring in other regions in the country.

Edited April 12, 2024 by Rewster
Continuing the topic

[aaaahockey]

16 minutes ago, Rewster said:

Their summary just caught me up to speed in a couple of paragraphs…

I think that’s what they call, “unintended consequences.” While attempting to point out problems without real solutions; the end result is actually galvanizing the topic at hand. Which doesn’t really make it go away…but only adds to its attention.
 

In any event, I’d add to this by pointing out that other “developing hockey markets” in the states are trying to model their AAA programs similarly to PPE (or vice-versa). TPH has academy’s located in FLA, AZ, Tennessee, and several places in the Midwest (Michigan, Iowa, Ohio, etc) as well. I’m not sure if it’s sustainable. But, it is occurring in other regions in the country.

If people are dumb enough to pay for it, of course it is.   If you are willing to pay, someone will always be willing to take your money.