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MuckNGrind

Let’s talk about the Pittsburgh Vengeance

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Dorsey has lost all control of that organization. Tryouts were complete and utter joke!  Half of the players quit the U18 team and now it’s made up of mostly West Allegheny kids. A lot of them 2002‘s. I’ll be surprised if they win a fifth of their games. The U16 team is also very weak. The coach cut most of the good players. Why, who knows.  “Vengeance Coaches & Friends.”  The 2004 is now stealing a goalie from the renegades top bantam team. Didn’t want him at tryouts, but wants him now.  Biggest joke in Pittsburgh, the Pittsburgh Vengeance.

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I had hopes this program would eventually turn into a legit AAA thing. It’s nothing more than a money grab dumpster fire!

I know two 02’s cut from the 16s that really made me scratch my head. 

The 18’s are a complete joke. The truth behind this, there was no team so Dorsey got in bed with a high school coach who brought him a team. Mainly 02’s whom are not even pahl AA 02’s. The majority of them played for lebo’s U16 team last year. Pure money grab for the vengeance & the coach.  

 

Edited by Paul Baxter
Removed underline

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That doesn't surprise me a bit about either Veng team. 

I know a few players/parents who tried out there the past 2 years and thought the tryouts were a joke to say the least.

Last season (17-18) a TON of kids showed up for the 16u tryouts and pretty quickly it eemed pretty obvious during the tryouts a lot of the players had been pre-picked and that most of the other kids were wasting their time there. 

I wouldn't trust anyone in the Veng/SCIR hierarchy with my kids future so that goodness we've never played there. 

The last 2 years (prior to this year) they took all the good 02's and moved them to the 18u team, leaving the 16u team with smaller kids.  And I know some of the kids who "made" the team certainly weren't the best ones who tried out either.

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17 hours ago, Grimace said:

There were zero 02's on the U18 vengeance last year. 

I know for certain there were 02's on the 18u team in the first season 16-17.  I presumed they did the same thing this past season.  Don't know for sure and don't talk to those hockey parents much anymore.  They don't post their rosters online so no way of knowing.

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42 minutes ago, Scooby Doo said:

I know for certain there were 02's on the 18u team in the first season 16-17.  I presumed they did the same thing this past season.  Don't know for sure and don't talk to those hockey parents much anymore.  They don't post their rosters online so no way of knowing.

The U18 team was all 99’s and 00’s last season.  The U16 team had 8 02’s on it and the rest 01’s.  The U15 team, all 02’s last season.  Can’t speak for this season yet.

Edited by OrrWhat

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1 hour ago, Scooby Doo said:

I know for certain there were 02's on the 18u team in the first season 16-17.  I presumed they did the same thing this past season.  Don't know for sure and don't talk to those hockey parents much anymore.  They don't post their rosters online so no way of knowing.

In the 16-17 season the vengeance u-18 team was a pretty strong team, most likely better than the vengeance jr team. I believe they even beat esmark a couple of times that year.  There weren’t any 02’s playing up from u-14. 

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The U18 is made up of 02’s - Mt Lebo AA kids from last years U16 team that maybe won 1 game, and a few poached kids that were promised to play on the jr team. The organization is a joke- the coach is a joke and they couldn’t beat the top 4-5 U18 AA Pahl teams. Last years U16 team got destroyed by Armstrong and the Vipers. What an embarrassment to Pittsburgh hockey and those poor parents paying big bucks following false promises! AAA 4 life!

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It’s sad to see how far the vengeance have fallen. They had some decent teams a few years back. At their first year of u16 their coach brought an entire team(all 98s). They weren’t great but had a respectable season. Following that two new coaches brought in some good 99s and 00s the next two years and had good seasons. Now that those 98s-00s are aging out and going to college things seem to be a mess.

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Vengeance is probably the biggest money grab in Pittsburgh.  They basically took over for the Pittsburgh Selects.  Finish First is a close second.  Cost is through the roof and the training is sub par in that little shed of a workout space.  Took my kids else where for both.

Edited by PuckHead7

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Talk shit all you want, the Vengeance have the best working model at the bottom. 2 of the top squirt teams in the area. They play competition to there level and not flying to Boston to do so. The Junior team now has a legit league. They have a solid 04 team that outplayed the local competition and then moved to a regional schedule. They are missing teams at all levels but I think you will start to see more team fill in the spots. With Pens Black teams dropping in talent and PAHL falling apart as you hit u12aa or u14aa. It makes more sense. Midget hockey is always going to be hit or miss, to many issues to list. If the Vengeance put in the right pieces and build from the bottom up, they will be a go to program in the area. They have more going for them or against them, just because you don't like Dorsey or Berkie does not mean that orginzation is done. Also Finish First is a franchise, there are lots of options out there, Berky runs his different than what Hoy or the one in Baierl does. He focuses on coaching and what worked for him for fitness over his career, but it is his business to run, seems like he is very busy so I would say he has a following. But if it does not work for you, lots of options out there.

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Ahh, the extremely high maintenance U9 & U10 teams. Yes, they are good at the squirt level. I’ll give you that.  Maybe the Vengeance will have a good program, in what, six years?  Problem is, they’ll keep making bad decisions based on a few people (and their friends) or the amount of money that they pay to other rink tenants and they will alienate the rest.

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It’s always the “AAA” (or wanna be AAA teams) teams that people moan, whine, complain and have a problem with.  Why isn’t anyone ever ticked off about an “A” or “B” team????😏Same crappy run organization whether it be AAA, AA, A or B but the parents of the kids that didn’t make the top team or have been cut from the top team have to hold a grudge and complain and spread their filth. If the organization is that bad then why talk about it? Move on to better things then! 

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The Vengeance program didn't develop the Squirts, those players were recruited from other organizations. And...they are Squirts. If they are still good at 14 and still playing at that program, then boast.

They have talent on the teams. But their coaches double shift players and play systems, which USA Hockey says is a no no for long term development. The program seems to be focused on wins over long term development of all players. And playing as Vengeance for tournaments and under the Renegade banner for PAHL was confusing. What was the point of that?

Jury is still out. Not going to bring my kids there or recommend a program because they have good Squirts who came from someone else's mite program.

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1 hour ago, What the.. said:

It’s always the “AAA” (or wanna be AAA teams) teams that people moan, whine, complain and have a problem with.  Why isn’t anyone ever ticked off about an “A” or “B” team????😏Same crappy run organization whether it be AAA, AA, A or B but the parents of the kids that didn’t make the top team or have been cut from the top team have to hold a grudge and complain and spread their filth. If the organization is that bad then why talk about it? Move on to better things then! 

I love it! Move along, there’s nothing to see here. Why talk about it? There is a thread about Butler Valley, the Vipers, and the Aviators. How come you didn’t put that on any of those threat I love it! Move along, there’s nothing to see here. Why talk about it? There is a thread about Butler Valley, the vipers, and the aviators. How come you didn’t  write your little spiel on any of those threads?

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I find is very interesting that the Vengeance U16 has played about 7-8 games and only 2 are entered into myhockey.  Trying to hide the fact that they stink, yet again.  Placed in the lowest division of USPHL. Now they can beat up on some other A/AA teams while traveling all over to do so.  Pahahaha, money well spent, I guess.

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On 9/16/2018 at 7:40 AM, dazedandconfused said:

At least you aren't bitter........

 Nowhere even close. I just like poking fun at an organization that will get their butts kicked all season long. At least at the midget level.  These two midget teams will barely (and that’s being nice) beat the AA pahl teams.   Pathetic, the u16 team only beat the iceman #2 team 3-2.

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The U16 Vengeance can certainly beat the Syracuse Stars and the Potomac Patriots.  Both of which are almost dead last.  Heard that they lost a couple more players and have added a couple more A major players.  True?  Not sure, but it sure is funny how things work out with a run by the seat of your pants organization.

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Okay- so after getting some games into myhockey, it is safe to assume we were all correct... This organization held multiple tryouts and still had to go from organization to organization taking kids who already committed to teams.  Kids who declined the offer were still contacted multiple time to play “AAA” and be “a junior call up”! This is the most classless thing I’ve ever withnessed from a coach and organization. You really should be ashamed with all of your false promises! 

The Vengeance are ranked #132 out of #141 at Tier 1 U18- oh and that’s without adding in the 2 games that they played Gilmore and were outscored 25-3. You read that right, outscored 25-3 in 2 games. I don’t think the Pittsburgh Penguins could outscore his team by that margin. I’m talking about the NHL team and not the elite if you are wondering. 

You are forcing the parents to travel all over the country when you could have been PAHL A major black or maybe PAHL AA. The Vengeance would be ranked #55 in tier 2. 

You can’t blame 17 or 18 year old kids who are told and promised AAA and Juniors. However, the coaches knew how bad this was going to be from the jump. I hope the head coach personally apologizes to the parents he raked for a ton of money, the kids who wasted an entire year of eligibility, and the other coaches whom you have taken players rostered on another team. We can debate on here but unfortunately can’t play because from my understanding you turned other PAHL teams down because you are not USA Hockey affiliated?? Was this intentional so you don’t have to explain why AAA Johnny got annihilated but AA Jimmy? Maybe you are just rerouting the money for insurance to a friend. 

I’ve witnessed people being sentenced 10-20 for lesser crimes then you are committing as a coach and organization. 

 

 

 

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I was at that Gilmour game.  Top 4 forwards left the game and showered after the first period.  There are a handful of kids from Western , Pa playing at Gilmour  .  

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I happen to know a few and they are great kids. I’m glad Gilmore gives them an opportunity to play for that team. 

My point is simple- PLAY AT YOU OWN LEVEL. Also there are so many high ranked teams within 2 hours of Pittsburgh. No need to travel 10 hours to showcases where you get the kids emabarrassed or even hurt. 

 

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BHD, while your post raises some interesting talking points it also provides a lot of inaccurate information and also undermines it's own credibility while rambling incoherently. For instance, being ranked that low is not good but it's not like they haven't won any games like some local teams of the past few years. The blowouts by Gilmour (notice the correct spelling) are pretty bad but this next part of your post makes zero sense.

14 hours ago, BlckHawkDwn said:

I don’t think the Pittsburgh Penguins could outscore his team by that margin. I’m talking about the NHL team and not the elite if you are wondering. 

What the hell does this mean?

2 hours ago, BlckHawkDwn said:

Also there are so many high ranked teams within 2 hours of Pittsburgh. No need to travel 10 hours to showcases where you get the kids emabarrassed or even hurt. 

Undermining credilbility again. Gilmour Academy is almost exactly 2 hours away.  Amherst and the Regals? Pretty comparable competition and what 3-3.5 hours away? Wayne, NJ is 6 hours.

14 hours ago, BlckHawkDwn said:

Maybe you are just rerouting the money for insurance to a friend. 

Is the coach an insurance agent or what does this mean?

 

You have some valid points but your approach needs refined.

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16 hours ago, BlckHawkDwn said:

Okay- so after getting some games into myhockey, it is safe to assume we were all correct... This organization held multiple tryouts and still had to go from organization to organization taking kids who already committed to teams.  Kids who declined the offer were still contacted multiple time to play “AAA” and be “a junior call up”! This is the most classless thing I’ve ever withnessed from a coach and organization. You really should be ashamed with all of your false promises! 

The Vengeance are ranked #132 out of #141 at Tier 1 U18- oh and that’s without adding in the 2 games that they played Gilmore and were outscored 25-3. You read that right, outscored 25-3 in 2 games. I don’t think the Pittsburgh Penguins could outscore his team by that margin. I’m talking about the NHL team and not the elite if you are wondering. 

You are forcing the parents to travel all over the country when you could have been PAHL A major black or maybe PAHL AA. The Vengeance would be ranked #55 in tier 2. 

You can’t blame 17 or 18 year old kids who are told and promised AAA and Juniors. However, the coaches knew how bad this was going to be from the jump. I hope the head coach personally apologizes to the parents he raked for a ton of money, the kids who wasted an entire year of eligibility, and the other coaches whom you have taken players rostered on another team. We can debate on here but unfortunately can’t play because from my understanding you turned other PAHL teams down because you are not USA Hockey affiliated?? Was this intentional so you don’t have to explain why AAA Johnny got annihilated but AA Jimmy? Maybe you are just rerouting the money for insurance to a friend. 

I’ve witnessed people being sentenced 10-20 for lesser crimes then you are committing as a coach and organization. 

 

 

 

They aren't forcing the parents to travel all over the country.   The parents are writing the check so they are fine with the travel.

 

 

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On 10/25/2018 at 9:49 AM, sadday4hockey said:

BHD, while your post raises some interesting talking points it also provides a lot of inaccurate information and also undermines it's own credibility while rambling incoherently. For instance, being ranked that low is not good but it's not like they haven't won any games like some local teams of the past few years. The blowouts by Gilmour (notice the correct spelling) are pretty bad but this next part of your post makes zero sense.

What the hell does this mean?

Undermining credilbility again. Gilmour Academy is almost exactly 2 hours away.  Amherst and the Regals? Pretty comparable competition and what 3-3.5 hours away? Wayne, NJ is 6 hours.

Is the coach an insurance agent or what does this mean?

 

You have some valid points but your approach needs refined.

Sorry - that was my fault. I merged two posts into one and cut some info out on accident.

1)  I was going to say If my sons team lost to anyone by that Margain (even the Pens) I would make him quit hockey. That’s a joke and they shouldn’t be playing this schedule. 

2) Their travel schedule is horrendous and parents already complaining about back to back weekends in Jersey- Boston- Connecticut! Why do all this crazy travel when you can play in Pittsburgh.  Why did their home games get axed this upcoming weekend? Nobody wants to travel here to play a team ranked at the bottom. 

3) Why are they not a part of USA hockey?? USA hockey provides insurance and other things to teams. So who is insuring this team? Why not be a part of USA hockey. My thought is that they are paying it to a friend or someone to benefit from all that money. Or it could be an excuse to avoid playing local teams. Several AA Pahl teams tried to set up games but they can’t because of USA hockey. 

 

I’m a realist! Look at the roster,ranking, travel, and fees for this team. Then please come back and tell me if it’s joke or not! Also take a look at the teams they beat. 

The poaching committeed kids not an issue? 

Also if anyone of the kids or parents on that team say they enjoy this season-they belong in A major black and just happy to say my kid is a AAA player. 

 

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