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I'm just wondering what kind of outlandish stories some of you may have about your child's try-outs, and how did "that" or "those" kids make the team and my kid didn't?  I know we all have some doozies, but is anyone willing to share?

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One I never have heard:

"My kid didn't make the team he/we wanted. Compared to the other kids, he just wasn't good enough. But that's alright, there's other teams that he'll be a good fit for, and have plenty of time to improve where he can. Next time is a new season and he can try again."

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For the life of me, I can’t comprehend why you’d want your kid out there getting clowned at a higher level than they belong. But the egos feed the beast. 

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well, I am not that ignorant to know about secret handshakes/winks and having player names penciled in before tryouts. But heres the icing for the cake. This Tier 1 team in OH have their tryouts scheduled in mid July (as posted on their website), but then there's a player who already posted about being on the team today (June 29th). For the rest of of us who didn't receive the contracts, we should just stay home and save the $110?

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4 hours ago, brokenstix said:

well, I am not that ignorant to know about secret handshakes/winks and having player names penciled in before tryouts. But heres the icing for the cake. This Tier 1 team in OH have their tryouts scheduled in mid July (as posted on their website), but then there's a player who already posted about being on the team today (June 29th). For the rest of of us who didn't receive the contracts, we should just stay home and save the $110?

Tryouts are a moderate to major money generator for many organizations. IMHO yes. Invest it in a 529 account. You’ll get a better ROI. 

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No issues for us.  Son only tried out for one team @ 18uAA.  All good players showed up.  Kids all got along well. 

Most stress free tryout ever!

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, BeaverFalls said:

For the life of me, I can’t comprehend why you’d want your kid out there getting clowned at a higher level than they belong. But the egos feed the beast. 

When my kid was playing he actually did this as a "tune-up" a few times.  If there was a high-level team that had tryouts the week before the team he wanted, he would go and just get used to the fast pace of tryouts, then be better prepared the following week.  2 out of 3 times he actually got offered a spot on the higher-level team.  Once, he took it and he had a decent year, and loved the players.  Once he declined it, and is actually a big regret to this day because the team he thought he wanted was actually filled with kids who were just idiots (and so were there parents).  The final time he didn't get offered a spot, got on the team he wanted and that team turned out to be better than the supposed higher-level team.

Edited by Eddie Shore

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24 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

When my kid was playing he actually did this as a "tune-up" a few times.  If there was a high-level team that had tryouts the week before the team he wanted, he would go and just get used to the fast pace of tryouts, then be better prepared the following week.  2 out of 3 times he actually got offered a spot on the higher-level team.  Once, he took it and he had a decent year, and loved the players.  Once he declined it, and is actually a big regret to this day because the team he thought he wanted was actually filled with kids who were just idiots (and so were there parents).  The final time he didn't get offered a spot, got on the team he wanted and that team turned out to be better than the supposed higher-level team.

I think a lot of families use a tryout this way. It isn't always easy to keep their feet moving before the program that they want tries out.

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On 6/30/2020 at 11:31 AM, Eddie Shore said:

When my kid was playing he actually did this as a "tune-up" a few times. 

...and that's we we have high tryout fees. 

Tryouts are not an intentional money maker as some have speculated.  Most youth orgs are 501(c)3s and aren't in place to make money.

Tryouts HAVE to be painfully expensive to prevent the tune up mentality and the constant shopping that goes on.  It also wastes of a lot of people's time when you do this.

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

...and that's we we have high tryout fees. 

Tryouts are not an intentional money maker as some have speculated.  Most youth orgs are 501(c)3s and aren't in place to make money.

Tryouts HAVE to be painfully expensive to prevent the tune up mentality and the constant shopping that goes on.  It also wastes of a lot of people's time when you do this.

This is so naive if it wasn’t nauseating it might be adorable. Now, let me school you on the 501c3 theory. While the officers cannot allow the business to show a profit for tax purposes, these organizations still are required to operate on a fiscal budget. Most of not all budget tryouts into their income column. Conversely, These budgets include what’s called expenses. Now, do you know any organizations that have officers that are part of the expenses? Or have “acquaintances” that are part of the expenses? If I am the president of an organization, i stand to make quite a bit of money to have a business that I’m an investor in do clinics, or cater events, etc. While others just brazenly use the access cash in the budget for personal use. I can go on and in about the illegal activity that goes on in youth hockey organizations but to state that a $350 tryout fee is to keep out players that are “tuning up” or shopping around is as irresponsible and unintelligent a statement that’s ever been made here. And that’s saying something. Again, prove me wrong.

Edited by The King

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LOL.  Let's just run tryouts at cost.  Why not double or triple our candidate count.  We can increase declines from 5%-10% to 50%-60%.  We can have constant roster instability all summer long as players quit and hop from $20 tryout to $20 tryout.  This is great.  We'll name it the King tryout model.  Seems just about right for 2020.  

 

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12 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

...and that's we we have high tryout fees. 

Tryouts are not an intentional money maker as some have speculated.  Most youth orgs are 501(c)3s and aren't in place to make money.

Tryouts HAVE to be painfully expensive to prevent the tune up mentality and the constant shopping that goes on.  It also wastes of a lot of people's time when you do this.

I have to disagree here. While tryout fees may have the unintended, or at best partially intended, effect of reducing the "tune up mentality", they're definitely used to generate income for the organizations. For many organizations they are a huge windfall, since the fee they charge is spread over (in most seasons) 50-60 kids for two hours of ice, after which a depressing number of players do not take their placements and are therefore not a further cost to the organization. It's pure profit.

Also, if we are being honest, I'd bet that very few people who are reading this board know more than a couple of players who only try out at their "home" organization every season, whatever the costs may be. Players do this for a variety of reasons, some the classical team shopping, some tuning up, some to have a few on-ice sessions with friends, a good number because their parents think they are better players than they actually are, and some for no obvious reason at all. But a high percentage of kids (no good way to estimate it, but half or more would be completely unsurprising to me) try out at more than one organization every season.

If you're curious about how being a 501(c)3 affects profitability, you only need to demand to see a balance sheet from the organization. If you can get it, you'll note that most local organizations have a large amount of money in the bank. Some reserve is obviously needed - this summer, organizations have been unable to collect any money at all from season fees, on-ice clinic fees, etc., and needed money to keep operating - but I have seen a couple of these from different organizations and I can tell you that the ones I saw would surprise you. Without making claims I can't substantiate about organization officials using the money themselves, I will say that I suspect that most parents have no idea how little board members pay at most organizations for their kids to play a season.

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13 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

...and that's we we have high tryout fees. 

Tryouts are not an intentional money maker as some have speculated.  Most youth orgs are 501(c)3s and aren't in place to make money.

Tryouts HAVE to be painfully expensive to prevent the tune up mentality and the constant shopping that goes on.  It also wastes of a lot of people's time when you do this.

Well Jack, you obviously didn't read all of my post, so I'll say it again.  You also didn't quote all of it (you must work for CNN).

As I stated in my original post, these were all HIGHER teams that he didn't think he had a shot at making, which is why I called it a tune up.  He actually made 2 of the 3 teams he did this with.  Accepted one of the invitations, so it wasn't really a tune up that time.  Declined another (and in hind-site wishes he had taken it), so we can call that one a tune up.  Didn't make the 3rd, and to be honest was better off without making that team, so not really a tune up there either.

Now let's move on to your statement that kids using tryouts as a tune-up RAISES costs for everyone else.  Please tell me how MORE kids attending tryouts RAISES costs?  I would think if a whole bunch of kids show up, the price would actually go down.  Oh wait, in reality the 2 have nothing to do with each other,  The costs are high because organizations use this as a money grab, just like everything else. 

So, by your logic my son shouldn't have tried out for those teams that he didn't think he had a shot at making to use this as practice for later tryouts?  Well then, I sure hope your organization then turns away kids who really do want to be on the team but in reality have no shot at making it and save their parents some $$$$.  The door swings both ways Jack.  Sorry, not buying your logic on this one.

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12 hours ago, The King said:

This is so naive if it wasn’t nauseating it might be adorable. Now, let me school you on the 501c3 theory. While the officers cannot allow the business to show a profit for tax purposes, these organizations still are required to operate on a fiscal budget. Most of not all budget tryouts into their income column. Conversely, These budgets include what’s called expenses. Now, do you know any organizations that have officers that are part of the expenses? Or have “acquaintances” that are part of the expenses? If I am the president of an organization, i stand to make quite a bit of money to have a business that I’m an investor in do clinics, or cater events, etc. While others just brazenly use the access cash in the budget for personal use. I can go on and in about the illegal activity that goes on in youth hockey organizations but to state that a $350 tryout fee is to keep out players that are “tuning up” or shopping around is as irresponsible and unintelligent a statement that’s ever been made here. And that’s saying something. Again, prove me wrong.

No he got he feelings hurt once because a bunch of really good players tried out for his for his "also-ran" team and left him at the alter.  Not what my kid did at all.  He tried out for teams he thought he had no shot at, and if he read my original post he would have seen that.  He would have also seen that it was in response to a person who stated that, "he had no idea why kids and parents would tryout for teams above their playing level just to get blasted on the ice".  And I explained why.  Not to mention that most organizations will charge an additional refundable fee if you make it to the final round (their way to protect against better kids who have no intentions of playing) and in some cases we have actually signed a contract that says, "if you are offered a spot you will accept it", also another way to protect the organization.  If this guy doesn't like players shopping around, maybe he shouldn't hold tryouts?  Oh wait, it's ok for teams to tell a kid, "sorry kid your just not good enough".  But it's not ok for the player to say, "sorry team, I don't think I want to play here".  SMH

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9 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

LOL.  Let's just run tryouts at cost.  Why not double or triple our candidate count.  We can increase declines from 5%-10% to 50%-60%.  We can have constant roster instability all summer long as players quit and hop from $20 tryout to $20 tryout.  This is great.  We'll name it the King tryout model.  Seems just about right for 2020.  

 

Wow, $20 for a tryout?  Maybe my kid should have played in Pittsburgh.  I had no idea the costs were so low.  Where we lived I don't ever remember paying less than $100 and that was over 8 years ago.  I would have thought tryout fees were close to $200 by now. 

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Posted (edited)

So hopefully you learned something here @Jack Handey. And as you move along, I realize that passive aggressive posts are your thing, but it really does nothing but serve to expose your lack of understanding of how things work.  You’re either a woman or this generations version of a “man”. Passive aggressive behavior is the calling card of either of those entities. As always, I encourage all to start questioning the people you’re handing money to. Lots of illegal activity going on around you. And in certain circumstances, YOU can be held responsible if/when the crimes are exposed. 501c3’s demand reviews and audits in order to maintain legal compliance. If you choose to turn a blind eye due to a lack of concern or cowardice, a crafty lawyer can hold you complicit in the crime in order to ease the burden on their client. Just some friendly advice.

Edited by The King

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The King said:

So hopefully you learned something here @Jack Handey. And as you move along, I realize that passive aggressive posts are your thing, but it really does nothing but serve to expose your lack of understanding of how things work.  You’re either a woman or this generations version of a “man”. Passive aggressive behavior is the calling card of either of those entities. As always, I encourage all to start questioning the people you’re handing money to. Lots of illegal activity going on around you. And in certain circumstances, YOU can be held responsible if/when the crimes are exposed. 501c3’s demand reviews and audits in order to maintain legal compliance. If you choose to turn a blind eye due to a lack of concern or cowardice, a crafty lawyer can hold you complicit in the crime in order to ease the burden on their client. Just some friendly advice.

Had a good laugh at this. Not that Jack isn’t a man, I don’t have a dog in this. In general, it’s just the truth. The feminization of the modern day man, coupled with a complete lack of spine or conviction is widespread. Seeing it in everyday life almost makes me buy into the conspiracy theories that the new world order wants to create generations of plant based, skinny jean wearing cuckholds. Along with promoting  masculine women... don’t even get me started. 
 

Women get all hot and bothered anymore, simply at the sight of a guy who knows how to start a lawn mower. 

Edited by ctil20

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11 hours ago, The King said:

You’re either a woman or this generations version of a “man”.

King, you’ve been told before to minimize the name calling and stay on point.  You can have an opposing point of view but it’s not necessary to use the above bash oriented rhetoric.  Not is it necessary to go to the nth degree to make your case.  Sometimes less is better.

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For anyone requesting to see their org's income statement, be sure to check in with the board members who set pricing, and ask them why tryouts are so high.  Most orgs will be honest and set the record straight.  Prices are inflated to right size the candidate pool.  This is Econ 101 and a technique that most boards use to ensure high acceptance rates of placements. It will be up to you to judge the character in their response. 

And by the way, yes, the tryout fees get chalked up on the balance sheet as revenue.  Is the intent to gouge their own members or fundraise?  No.  It's a weed-out play, plain and simple.

I'll go ahead and predict the king will come back with the same old song and dance and say that you can't trust board members because they are lying and covering up some payoff or immoral behavior.  Does it happen?  Yes.  Is it typical?  No.  But it is clearly the king's anecdotal experience, and it has poisoned him. That and/or he's feeling the sting from a hand slap by some regional affiliate.  Whatever.  Spare us your overdone broken record response.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

For anyone requesting to see their org's income statement, be sure to check in with the board members who set pricing, and ask them why tryouts are so high.  Most orgs will be honest and set the record straight.  Prices are inflated to right size the candidate pool.  This is Econ 101 and a technique that most boards use to ensure high acceptance rates of placements. It will be up to you to judge the character in their response. 

And by the way, yes, the tryout fees get chalked up on the balance sheet as revenue.  Is the intent to gouge their own members or fundraise?  No.  It's a weed-out play, plain and simple.

I'll go ahead and predict the king will come back with the same old song and dance and say that you can't trust board members because they are lying and covering up some payoff or immoral behavior.  Does it happen?  Yes.  Is it typical?  No.  But it is clearly the king's anecdotal experience, and it has poisoned him. That and/or he's feeling the sting from a hand slap by some regional affiliate.  Whatever.  Spare us your overdone broken record response.

Sweetheart, if you had any idea how many “handslaps” I’ve gotten in my many years involved with the sport by several different governing bodies, it would make your little head spin. And I assure you, not once did I care. No I’ve been out of it n an official capacity for some time. I originally believed as a young man (yes I’ll give you a peek behind the curtain) that I needed to “fight the power” to make a difference. But I simply could not stay aligned with the growing number of incompetent and unethical people I saw running the business. Now I’ve met many great people that shared my passion for growing the game, developing the next generation, and taking pride in my work. But the bad consistently outweighed the good. And it’s growing. I can travel to a state I’m almost every affiliate in USA hockey and see a former player, colleague or coach, and know I did something good. I also have tremendous adults I raised around the sport. But I realized that all of these people were having increasingly difficult times due to a growing issue with the sport and it’s leadership. So I do what I do from the outside. And what I hope to do here on this board and others is to build the younger generations education on what is and isn’t the right way to do things. Especially how to spot frauds. Which brings me to your post. Answer me this, who is talking about school hockey? The original post was referring to travel hockey. You made several posts referencing the elimination of program jumping. You can’t jump from school to school. So using your logic, Why aren’t school tryouts free? Build the tryout ice into the accepting players fees. Oh and by the way, budgets are done post commitments. So all costs are set and distributed. I think you need to take ECON 101 again. But here’s the real issue, if you run a legitimate program, why worry about commitments? If players (parents) are waffling and angling for playing time, cost reduction, etc. who needs them? I’m judging by your posts you run an organization somewhere. If anyone knows Jack Hand, I would immediately request budgets and profit/loss statements and ask- why do you feel that forcing commitments by leveraging non refundable fees is the way to build a program? Shouldn’t we be using our competence to do so? I would also request an itemized statement as to what the carryover money will be used for. See non-profits can carry over a balance but it must be used for future expenses. And it must be used for those allocated expenses. It cannot be used to pay off previous debt. That’s illegal. As I’ve said many times, prove me wrong. You can’t. But you’re continued passive aggressive posts and your fear of answering me directly proves me right again. Like I said, try harder.

Edited by The King

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11 hours ago, Paul Baxter said:

King, you’ve been told before to minimize the name calling and stay on point.  You can have an opposing point of view but it’s not necessary to use the above bash oriented rhetoric.  Not is it necessary to go to the nth degree to make your case.  Sometimes less is better.

Paul come on. First off I was called out by the poster. Now I get that name calling is hurtful to the new generation but this is far from that in my opinion. I simply gave my opinion on the posters gender and personality based in their pattern of passive aggressive posts. I didn’t force them to call me out or post This way. I feel that if they’re going to continue this behavior they take their medicine. Further, if someone runs and complains, can’t we tell them to not post referring to another poster?

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2 hours ago, The King said:

if you had any idea how many “handslaps” I’ve gotten

 

2 hours ago, The King said:

And what I hope to do here on this board and others is to build the younger generations education on what is and isn’t the right way to do things.

 

Wow.  He can't play by rules, but has no problem warning everyone else about the rule benders.  You win the ironic post of the day.  

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1 minute ago, Jack Handey said:

 

 

Wow.  He can't play by rules, but has no problem warning everyone else about the rule benders.  You win the ironic post of the day.  

Who said anything about rule bending? I’ve stated pretty clearly that I’m no friend of the governing bodies and as outspoken as I am here I am equally so in reality. This always makes people in charge nervous because you don’t comply and don’t fear their “handslaps” for non compliance. Theres a difference Between illegal activity and not complying with unconstitutional violations by a corrupt business. Not to mention, this ignores 99% of my post that embarrassingly exposes your lack of ethics and experience. That’s become another calling card of yours. Like I said, try harder but I actually think you should quit while you’re behind because, based on your posts to this point, something tells me your club is about to be ground zero for failed leadership. 

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Here is something funny, I heard that same Minnesota HS story about 15 years ago. I’d bet it has happened but it’s folk lore. look at the kid who’s parents sold their house and lived on a house boat on Lake Erie so their kid could play junior hockey. 

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