Wes Posted September 15, 2022 Author Share Posted September 15, 2022 1 hour ago, carroll81 said: My experience with BB operations in the East is that they do not rush in to update the rink. Unless there is some kind of emergency, don't get your hopes up for any updates this season. Maybe next year. Well that sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pucks11 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 4 hours ago, carroll81 said: My experience with BB operations in the East is that they do not rush in to update the rink. Unless there is some kind of emergency, don't get your hopes up for any updates this season. Maybe next year. Half of their boards are literally cement with 00.00% give. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJUSHL Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, carroll81 said: My experience with BB operations in the East is that they do not rush in to update the rink. Unless there is some kind of emergency, don't get your hopes up for any updates this season. Maybe next year. This is exactly true. Their first priority is increasing the cost of ice time and making sure every single ice slot is filled. They'll also probably add a few new signs and graphics advertising their PAHL alternative league. It's not like they're going to roll in some shiny new Zamboni or improve the lighting. That's just not how they operate. Yes, they'll make sure the barn doesn't collapse and that it's presentable enough to be a legit ice rink, but a year from now it's going to look and feel exactly the same as it does today. Edited September 15, 2022 by RJUSHL 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 Isn't there a relationship between Esmark and Black Bear now? I couldn't find anything on their website. Came across this! Black Bear Sports Group, Inc., owns and/or manages 26 hockey clubs ranging from Tier II (B, A, AA) and Tier I (AAA) to Juniors. I guess they don't own or manage Esmark yet. I would think their best bet to own and manage a Tier II program in SWPA might be out of Rostraver. Maybe they will start their own. Does anyone know how they acquired or purchased the 26 they have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carroll81 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said: Isn't there a relationship between Esmark and Black Bear now? I couldn't find anything on their website. Came across this! Black Bear Sports Group, Inc., owns and/or manages 26 hockey clubs ranging from Tier II (B, A, AA) and Tier I (AAA) to Juniors. I guess they don't own or manage Esmark yet. I would think their best bet to own and manage a Tier II program in SWPA might be out of Rostraver. Maybe they will start their own. Does anyone know how they acquired or purchased the 26 they have now. Pretty straight forward. They are a hedge-fund backed organization that buys rinks. Once they own the rink they will absorb the teams/organizations that play there. Now that they have some critical mass, they started their own league. The league started out as just supplemental showcases to the existing local leagues. Now the league has a full regular season, in addition to the showcases. They have also lured organizations from other rinks that they do not own to join the league. The biggest difference between them and other leagues: money and having paid personnel running things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 Thanks for the info. They are obviously much more concentrated in Eastern Pa & New Jersey. I wonder how many rinks they think they need to own in SWPA & Ohio before they make a move to a Western Division. Anybody know how long they have been in the Ice Rink business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) On 9/14/2022 at 7:44 PM, carroll81 said: My experience with BB operations in the East is that they do not rush in to update the rink. Unless there is some kind of emergency, don't get your hopes up for any updates this season. Maybe next year. There is sort of an emergency, if someone were to put carbon dioxide meters in that rink nobody would be allowed in. New Zamboni is needed assp. the boards are dangerous, that’s why the pros would not play the exhibition game after the rink won the Kraft hockeyville contest. Edited September 16, 2022 by Danner27 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 9 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said: Thanks for the info. They are obviously much more concentrated in Eastern Pa & New Jersey. I wonder how many rinks they think they need to own in SWPA & Ohio before they make a move to a Western Division. Anybody know how long they have been in the Ice Rink business? Black Bear started as a bit of a pyramid business model. That have a lot of ex pro investors in each city that are usually partners when they purchase. This is due to BB buying junior teams (real junior hockey) and the ex pro’s wanting their kids to have an inside path to climb. I can’t speak for what they have bought in western pa, I don’t follow deep enough anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJUSHL Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 8 hours ago, Danner27 said: Black Bear started as a bit of a pyramid business model. That have a lot of ex pro investors in each city that are usually partners when they purchase. This is due to BB buying junior teams (real junior hockey) and the ex pro’s wanting their kids to have an inside path to climb. I can’t speak for what they have bought in western pa, I don’t follow deep enough anymore. That's interesting. As far as a I can tell they haven't taken over any of the amateur organizations at the rinks they own in WPA but it could just be a matter of time. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 1 hour ago, RJUSHL said: That's interesting. As far as a I can tell they haven't taken over any of the amateur organizations at the rinks they own in WPA but it could just be a matter of time. Who knows. 3 of their investors in the jersey - Philly area had kids play for team Maryland tier 1 then move onto the Maryland Black Bears (nahl) 2 of these 3 kids are no better than any western pa AA players. The company is called black bear because they first thing they purchased was the Maryland black bears nahl team. At some point BB had involvement with the New Jersey titans of the nahl, ex flyer Jim Dowd was involved, he used this model to get both of his kids into the ushl. One of his kids is pretty good the other not so much, this is were the business model came from. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saucey Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 23 hours ago, Danner27 said: 3 of their investors in the jersey - Philly area had kids play for team Maryland tier 1 then move onto the Maryland Black Bears (nahl) 2 of these 3 kids are no better than any western pa AA players. The company is called black bear because they first thing they purchased was the Maryland black bears nahl team. At some point BB had involvement with the New Jersey titans of the nahl, ex flyer Jim Dowd was involved, he used this model to get both of his kids into the ushl. One of his kids is pretty good the other not so much, this is were the business model came from. Hahaha so the ultimate butt hurt guy making his own team when his kid didn't make the team he thought he should be on. Sigh. Except he has more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 (edited) On 9/17/2022 at 8:20 AM, Saucey said: Hahaha so the ultimate butt hurt guy making his own team when his kid didn't make the team he thought he should be on. Sigh. Except he has more money. The chicago steel changes owners hands constantly along with investors. Matt Barnaby exposed this on his podcast a few years back when his (former pro dad kid) got screwed by the the newest investors brought in to make way for their kids lol. Honestly barnaby’s kid wasn’t ushl material but the info he gave out with names etc was a big eye opener. None of those kids deserved to be there. One of them got so much icetime it was almost ludicrous. He was put on the PP with the real players to try and pad his stats. Edited September 18, 2022 by Danner27 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadday4hockey Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 On 9/17/2022 at 8:20 AM, Saucey said: Hahaha so the ultimate butt hurt guy making his own team when his kid didn't make the team he thought he should be on. Sigh. Except he has more money. No different than the origin of the Hornets as well as the PPE. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted October 4, 2022 Author Share Posted October 4, 2022 Any news on Rostraver? Haven't heard anything in the last few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis8679 Posted October 4, 2022 Share Posted October 4, 2022 On 9/19/2022 at 11:41 AM, sadday4hockey said: No different than the origin of the Hornets as well as the PPE. The new owner also went partners with a certain #20 on a junior team so his son could move on to that, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnkey1229 Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 the rink is sold - contingent on a lot of things being fixed first by the current owner. Terms are said to be by the end of this year , or deal is voided. we'll have to see how that goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifelongbender Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 1 minute ago, turnkey1229 said: the rink is sold - contingent on a lot of things being fixed first by the current owner. Terms are said to be by the end of this year , or deal is voided. we'll have to see how that goes Yes, after all the stuff we all heard that it was a done deal, it turns out that the Devil is in the details. I've heard that some of the repairs required are prohibitively expensive, including a rumor I heard that air quality is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 5 hours ago, Lifelongbender said: Yes, after all the stuff we all heard that it was a done deal, it turns out that the Devil is in the details. I've heard that some of the repairs required are prohibitively expensive, including a rumor I heard that air quality is an issue. Air quality is an issue there, it’s almost criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesis8679 Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Danner27 said: Air quality is an issue there, it’s almost criminal. Almost? It's like a gas chamber. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 (edited) needs torn down and rebuilt, probably be cheaper than trying to fix it Edited October 6, 2022 by rock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted October 6, 2022 Author Share Posted October 6, 2022 On 10/5/2022 at 4:04 PM, Lifelongbender said: Yes, after all the stuff we all heard that it was a done deal, it turns out that the Devil is in the details. I've heard that some of the repairs required are prohibitively expensive, including a rumor I heard that air quality is an issue. Not that I am an expert on negotiation, but I do find it interesting that the new owners want some things done before completing the deal, instead of getting them quoted out and deducting those from the amount of the sale. No idea how complex fixing the air quality problem is but It's likely to be costly. There aren't any ventilation pipes or openings in the crest of the rebuilt structure, so this is going to be an interesting upgrade to complete while the ice is present. lots of lift rentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldPucker Posted October 9, 2022 Share Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) Air quality....... start off by purchasing a NEW battery powered ice resurfacer. IIRC, the Zamboni's have been am issue for as long as I can remember. Edited October 9, 2022 by GrumpyOldPucker poor typing skills 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 16 hours ago, GrumpyOldPucker said: Air quality....... start off by purchasing a NEW battery powered ice resurfacer. IIRC, the Zamboni's have been am issue for as long as I can remember. We were there for a PIHL playoff game ~7-8 years ago, and literally I had to stand at the top of the rink with half my body outside the door, the exhaust stench was so bad from the zamboni used at the time. Never smelled a worse condition inside a rink than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifelongbender Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 17 hours ago, GrumpyOldPucker said: Air quality....... start off by purchasing a NEW battery powered ice resurfacer. IIRC, the Zamboni's have been am issue for as long as I can remember. To be honest a new Zamboni might cost more than the entire place is actually worth. Well, that may not be literally true, it's probably enough to be a deal breaker on its own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsi Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Wes said: We were there for a PIHL playoff game ~7-8 years ago, and literally I had to stand at the top of the rink with half my body outside the door, the exhaust stench was so bad from the zamboni used at the time. Never smelled a worse condition inside a rink than that. You must have never experienced the old Neville Ice Arena on the South Side. Legitimately, had fans and players pass out from the fumes there. There's a reason why it isn't there anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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