PAHL AA Playoffs

[Icebucket]

1 minute ago, RJUSHL said:

This is exactly right. A lot of the better teams in the AHF and THF are the western PA team. But it's probably just a matter of time until AHF has entire "west" divisions in Pittsburgh.

Which makes it even more pathetic that PAHL doesn't do anything. The hardest part is getting quality teams. PAHL already has the better teams, and they are losing them because they do nothing to improve things year after year.

[RJUSHL]

Just now, Icebucket said:

Which makes it even more pathetic that PAHL doesn't do anything. The hardest part is getting quality teams. PAHL already has the better teams, and they are losing them because they do nothing to improve things year after year.

Yep. PAHL knows it's just a matter of time before Black Bear and the AHF completely take over in Western PA.

It's evil genius by Black Bear... buy all the rinks in an area, raise the cost of ice every single year by shocking amounts, and then create a monopoly on youth hockey league play to purchase all the ice.

Allegheny, South Pitt, Icemen, Preds, Esmark are already in deep with Black Bear and their leagues. That's just the beginning. In many ways PAHL has itself to blame but that doesn't make it any better.

[Saucey]

We didn't travel East often and with the exception of one tournament that drew high ranked teams, the competition from that end wasn't very good. I would not want to make that drive on the regular for league games for sure.

[Wes]

3 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

PAHL wants to charge the money and do the least work possible. Basically they run an organized in-house league that travels to play. I can see it getting to where they're being challenged with a competitor now and will probably end up rolling over and giving up as they continue to lose players and teams. 

However, I'll add that the AHF/THF groups on Facebook have an awful lot of complaining about "my kid faced 60 shots but the scoresheet only said 58", "they totally missed my kid's secondary assists 3 time this weekend", or any different incarnations of that you can think of. So I can see where PAHL doesn't want hounded week in and week out with those kind of complaints. 

I was just going to say the same thing to @hockeyisgreat but you beat me to it.  They get paid $$$ and try to skate by with the minimum amount of work possible.  Strange how nothing has changed much since Darcee left.

[Wes]

Slightly OT, but how the heck did DF get the position as ED with PAHL when to the best of my knowledge he never had anything to do with them???  WTF?

Regardless, he's done nothing to improve anything since we left a few years back.  Everything still sucks... Just like the WPIAL.

 

 

[TheRightCall]

18 minutes ago, Wes said:

Slightly OT, but how the heck did DF get the position as ED with PAHL when to the best of my knowledge he never had anything to do with them???  WTF?

Regardless, he's done nothing to improve anything since we left a few years back.  Everything still sucks... Just like the WPIAL.

 

 

Agree, this guy has no business running any league, save for beer league somewhere. He is part of the good old boy buddy buddy old guard from PIHO and WPHOA.

[Rewster]

10 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

The AHF distinguishes itself with a full-time professional staff, live scoring and extensive social media coverage making it the ultimate choice for those seeking the best. With parity showcases All-Stars and Championships the AHF offers a complete experience for our members.

Taken from the AHF website!

Wouldn't it be nice if the PAHL could do just some of this!

The person/people in charge of PAHL’s social media presence are currently stuck in paralysis by analysis mode after re-reading this paragraph all day. I’d be surprised if those calling the shots in the PAHL even understand how vast the gulf exists between them and other leagues (i.e. AHF) when we compare their current platforms…then consider the enticement of anonymity to attract the best players in the region.  What better way to generate local/regional buzz and draw high-end hockey, than to highlight their teams and players through a package deal with their nonexistent marketing and promotional teams. 
 

It’s almost like there’s quite a bit of shame going on over there. They’re actively trying to suppress any information from being leaked out to the public. Interesting philosophy to not want to routinely field the best teams with the best players that Western Pennsylvania has locally grown. If this is the way they are going…then maybe they should mandate the removal of nameplates from the back of the league’s team jerseys too? Id love not knowing who is who while watching games (I’m being facetious). It’d be like watching the Yankees, Red Sox, or Penn State football…only without a program that tells you who’s wearing what number.

[Rewster]

5 hours ago, Pucks11 said:

This is the problem with having score sheets, the parents have to ruin it once again. Goalie parents are the WORST by far and most of them don't know what a REAL shit on goal is and want everything thrown near their kid listed as a shot. They yell at the coaches, refs and score keepers if their kids don't get their assist or shots right. I know parents that have actually called and Emailed the teams, leagues and companies running a tournament because they keep their own stats and even send video clips of their kids not getting a 2nd assist or a shot went off their kid and someone else got the goal. Parents ruin everything in youth sports.

There was a glitch in the reporting of the game scores this season for most of the year. You actually could click on the individual games and have access to the digital game sheets and summaries.

Nobody complained about it. It was actually pretty nice to see something other than just the final score of each game.

Once the league caught wind of their loophole of their statistical lockdown; they sewed it up for good. 

If there was any one person that complained about the score sheets being open to the public…well, it was the PAHL (obviously). Someone who monitors these boards and has the ability to remove the players’ individual competitiveness. The player statistics were obviously being tabulated and recorded. Why not be transparent about it? Hockey is a team game where keeping score is important. The Fair Play Points make a big difference down the stretch and sometimes it’s what makes teams more or less competitive depending on how aggressive they can be. The game sheets also show these penalties, minutes, and tabulations of the FPP. Without transparency, corruption has a haven.

[Rewster]

15 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Congratulations to all the teams that won their Divisions this weekend.  Too bad all we get is scores!  No game sheets to see how the games went!  Or for that matter any coverage at all.  Does PAHL have a facebook or Twitter site?  It's ashamed how far behind Black Bear Tier 2 they are.  Hopefully we will be able to find the MidAms on Score Sheet this weekend. If PAHL is not going to recognize their top AA players, I would suggest all those teams Join the Atlantic Hockey Federation and have their own Western PA Division.

LiveBarn allows you access of the games from this past weekend at Belmont Complex…which reminds me…I hope that I didn’t just ruin it for everyone if PAHL shuts it down now. Do you think they will now black it out so that nobody can go back and watch? Would you be surprised?

[HockeyFan6687]

3 hours ago, Wes said:

Slightly OT, but how the heck did DF get the position as ED with PAHL when to the best of my knowledge he never had anything to do with them???  WTF?

Regardless, he's done nothing to improve anything since we left a few years back.  Everything still sucks... Just like the WPIAL.

 

 

He’s just another in a long list of good ole boy hacks that’s adopted the “This is how we have always done it” attitude.   Hence the league is full of stagnation.  

[nemesis8679]

10 hours ago, Rewster said:

There was a glitch in the reporting of the game scores this season for most of the year. You actually could click on the individual games and have access to the digital game sheets and summaries.

Nobody complained about it. It was actually pretty nice to see something other than just the final score of each game.

Once the league caught wind of their loophole of their statistical lockdown; they sewed it up for good. 

If there was any one person that complained about the score sheets being open to the public…well, it was the PAHL (obviously). Someone who monitors these boards and has the ability to remove the players’ individual competitiveness. The player statistics were obviously being tabulated and recorded. Why not be transparent about it? Hockey is a team game where keeping score is important. The Fair Play Points make a big difference down the stretch and sometimes it’s what makes teams more or less competitive depending on how aggressive they can be. The game sheets also show these penalties, minutes, and tabulations of the FPP. Without transparency, corruption has a haven.

Imagine if you could see the actual scoresheets. It would substantiate the rinks where the visiting teams routinely and blatantly get homered. 

[Spear and Magic Helmet]

I agree with the points about Black Bear and AA hockey. I think it's just a matter of time before PAHL is B and their 6-8 levels of A (minor/major, white/gold/black, birthyear, whatever other way they want to divide it). I think the "independent" teams will probably migrate to the black bear leagues because they will let them play AA and there is already some travel built into the schedule, because driving farther means it's "better". In the end, a Pittsburgh division of AA teams is probably not a bad result, but the cost is certainly not going to go down.

[Wes]

2 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Imagine if you could see the actual scoresheets. It would substantiate the rinks where the visiting teams routinely and blatantly get homered. 

Armstrong would easily be in the top 5.

[Corsi]

14 hours ago, Rewster said:

There was a glitch in the reporting of the game scores this season for most of the year. You actually could click on the individual games and have access to the digital game sheets and summaries.

Nobody complained about it. It was actually pretty nice to see something other than just the final score of each game.

Once the league caught wind of their loophole of their statistical lockdown; they sewed it up for good. 

If there was any one person that complained about the score sheets being open to the public…well, it was the PAHL (obviously). Someone who monitors these boards and has the ability to remove the players’ individual competitiveness. The player statistics were obviously being tabulated and recorded. Why not be transparent about it? Hockey is a team game where keeping score is important. The Fair Play Points make a big difference down the stretch and sometimes it’s what makes teams more or less competitive depending on how aggressive they can be. The game sheets also show these penalties, minutes, and tabulations of the FPP. Without transparency, corruption has a haven.

That same "glitch" has appeared on and off on the PAHL site over the years.  While I'm no longer involved with PAHL, when I was, I was partially responsible with submitting an organizations preferred placement prior to placement games.  The first season I did this I questioned why when they asked for each team's roster they also requested what team and what level (B, A, AA, AAA) each player had played at the previous season (not sure if PAHL still requires this).  The reply I received was that it was mainly for players that were coming in from an organization outside of PAHL, because "they already have stats on every player in PAHL".  I then asked why PAHL doesn't post them anywhere and the response was "because they are afraid that other teams are going to start recruiting kids".  

[fafa fohi]

2 hours ago, Wes said:

Armstrong would easily be in the top 5.

Top 5?

Armstrong is the gold standard for homerism, and hearing the Armstrong faithful parents attempt to say it isn’t so is comic relief.

[nemesis8679]

Armstrong

Predators

 Badgers

North Pittsburgh

Indiana

 

Though I'm not convinced the refs of the Badgers games are actually biased, or just afraid of being assaulted by Badgers parents. 

[Overqualified]

On 3/4/2024 at 3:03 PM, YouthHockey? said:

18U had some close competition. Preds beat Mt Lebo in overtime Saturday coming back from 2 - 0 deficit in the third. Arrows beat Preds in shootout after two five minute over times to win PAHL 18U yesterday. 

I saw that on live barn

Preds coach called timeout with 38 seconds left in 3rd shorthanded with face off in their zone

Drew up a perfect play to score then shortly after win it in overtime 

Here to find out Lebo coach left after 2nd period to watch his other kid play

I heard Lebo parents were pissed

The championship was a 0 to 0 tie after 2 overtime periods 

They should have went to 3 on 3 overtime to decide a winner 

Hate to see a championship go to a shoot out 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

2 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Top 5?

Armstrong is the gold standard for homerism, and hearing the Armstrong faithful parents attempt to say it isn’t so is comic relief.

Number one on the list. Worst of the worst homers. 

[Icebucket]

2 hours ago, Overqualified said:

I saw that on live barn

Preds coach called timeout with 38 seconds left in 3rd shorthanded with face off in their zone

Drew up a perfect play to score then shortly after win it in overtime 

Here to find out Lebo coach left after 2nd period to watch his other kid play

I heard Lebo parents were pissed

The championship was a 0 to 0 tie after 2 overtime periods 

They should have went to 3 on 3 overtime to decide a winner 

Hate to see a championship go to a shoot out 

I watched both Armstrong games online as my son has a few friends who still play there. They have a very solid team top to bottom, but they were certainly pushed. They topped NP 3-1, but it was probably the closer game. NP had a lot of good chances, but Armstrong goalie is very big with good positioning. He makes alot of tough saves look easy.  For the Armstrong/Predators game, it was one of the greatest showings from a goalie I've seen in a while. Armstrong outmatched them pretty heavily, but that goalie stood on his head and stopped all 45+ shots through 3 periods and 2 OTs.

Regarding the Mt Lebanon coach.  If it's true that he bailed after the second period that's a shame and the parents should be angry. I believe it's the club president and long standing family tied with the club right?

[Rewster]

8 hours ago, Corsi said:

That same "glitch" has appeared on and off on the PAHL site over the years.  While I'm no longer involved with PAHL, when I was, I was partially responsible with submitting an organizations preferred placement prior to placement games.  The first season I did this I questioned why when they asked for each team's roster they also requested what team and what level (B, A, AA, AAA) each player had played at the previous season (not sure if PAHL still requires this).  The reply I received was that it was mainly for players that were coming in from an organization outside of PAHL, because "they already have stats on every player in PAHL".  I then asked why PAHL doesn't post them anywhere and the response was "because they are afraid that other teams are going to start recruiting kids".  

Yes, that is one reason that I have also heard. The other main reason that have heard (as to why the gag order was implemented to ban statistical publication of the teams and players) was due to fear of parents becoming unruly and complaining about the inaccuracies in shots/saves, assists, goals, etc and the obvious omission from the parents’ expertise. All I know is that these things happen all over North American youth hockey. The successful leagues have a policy in place that addresses disputes in a timely and efficient manner.

Either reason that is given as to why they don’t maintain public transparency with statistical data, are both based on the primary tenant of “fear.” Instead of the league awarding an individual trophy for most points, or most goals, or most assists by a forward and/or defenseman/defensewoman; they give out the “participation trophy” equivalency by removing evidence of their existence.

Life is a competition. People keep score. Oftentimes, it validates one’s hard work, effort, and commitment to obtaining a team’s success through the individual effort of the 6-person unit at any one time on the ice.

Edited March 6 by Rewster

[hockeyisgreat]

8 hours ago, Rewster said:

Life is a competition. People keep score. Oftentimes, it validates one’s hard work, effort, and commitment to obtaining a team’s success through the individual effort of the 6-person unit at any one time on the ice.

AWESOME!  Truer words have never been spoken!  Your whole text is right on the money!  We need to keep this discussion alive and try to put pressure on the PAHL through the member organizations to change their dinosaur way of thinking.  You would think that if enough members want stats and pressure them it will happen!   PIHL uses the same platform, You can see stats all the way down to Middle school.  Stats aren't hiding anyone from other organizations. They all know who the best players in PAHL AA are.  If coaches want to poach them they already have all the info they need.  Just a poor excuse from PAHL!

[Corsi]

11 hours ago, Rewster said:

Yes, that is one reason that I have also heard. The other main reason that have heard (as to why the gag order was implemented to ban statistical publication of the teams and players) was due to fear of parents becoming unruly and complaining about the inaccuracies in shots/saves, assists, goals, etc and the obvious omission from the parents’ expertise. All I know is that these things happen all over North American youth hockey. The successful leagues have a policy in place that addresses disputes in a timely and efficient manner.

Either reason that is given as to why they don’t maintain public transparency with statistical data, are both based on the primary tenant of “fear.” Instead of the league awarding an individual trophy for most points, or most goals, or most assists by a forward and/or defenseman/defensewoman; they give out the “participation trophy” equivalency by removing evidence of their existence.

Life is a competition. People keep score. Oftentimes, it validates one’s hard work, effort, and commitment to obtaining a team’s success through the individual effort of the 6-person unit at any one time on the ice.

If the stats are published or not, parents and coaches already question scoring decisions.  I still officiate games, and at the younger age groups I get questioned more about awarding secondary assists than I do about getting calls right in a lot of games.  As far as shots goes, that has always been arbitrary even at the NHL level (I can remember the stories about the way NJ was legendary for some of the shot totals they came up with in the 2000's), so that will never be agreed upon.  

I disagree with the idea of giving out awards for scoring accomplishments because we already see players (and parents) who are ONLY concerned with how many goals their little player scores and that would only perpetuate selfish play.  The bare minimum should be that the stats should be published and updated each week during the season.  At the very least, this would provide a single source regardless if people are satisfied with the accuracy.  People aren't always happy with the accuracy of the stats the NHL publishes, that's the cost of doing business.  

[Danner27]

Dave is still around? He did a great job running the CHE into the ground. Didn’t realize he left that leauge. 

[James Gatz]

The scorekeeping is going to be inconsistent.  It is dependent on largely untrained, parent volunteers serving as the scorekeeper.  It is probably worse at the younger age groups where some of the parents, like the players, are new to the sport and the role.  Everyone should be willing to accept this and know the stats are not the be all end all.  

Not posting the stats, however, does beg the question of why keep them at all?  Why not just report the final scores and penalty minutes and move on?  The answer lies in that the leauge does keep and use the stats.  I suspect they are useful in making placement decisions in subsequent seasons.  If the league is going to keep the stats, and use them internally, what is the real harm in publishing them?  I've seen two theories put forth and address each below:

1.)  Post-game parent complaints.

The PAHL could adopt a rule/policy position along the final lines and post it on their site.  "All scoring is final once signed by the appropriate officials and submitted to the league office.  The PAHL will not hear any appeals regarding scoresheets....."

 

2.)  Other teams leagues will use public scoring to poach/recruit.

Who cares.  It's a small community here and for the most part people know who is who.  Frankly, the managers, coaches, and member organizations have the scoresheets and could use them for recruiting purposes already.  Not publishing the scores is not the best way to govern recruiting issues.  

 

 

 

[Wes]

15 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Dave is still around? He did a great job running the CHE into the ground. Didn’t realize he left that leauge. 

he's still the commie at CHE as well.  Must be nice to dip in all that $$$

https://www.collegehockeyeast.com/personnel

I have no idea how he got the PAHL job or the CHE job.  He's well connected and I guess that's the key.

Edited March 6 by Wes