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Scooby Doo

College hockey in the area getting cancelled...

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Just got word today that Cal (U of PA) will not be doing hockey games at least through 12/31/20.  Practices are a question and what happens after 12/31 is a question as well.  Cal has fully switched to online classes for this fall, nothing will be open on campus this whole fall.

So this likely means all the other teams locally that Cal plays are also going to be in the same boat hockey-wise.  Very disappointing...

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Governor Tom Wolf

@GovernorTomWolf

There are widespread rumors that I will soon be announcing a statewide school building closure or cancelling classes this fall. I want to be clear: I am not closing school buildings or cancelling classes.

 

Wolf just tweeted that out and with the PIAA trying to go forward it gives me more confidence that there might be a PIHL season.  I think it all depends on if the curve stays flat and we don't have clusters at rinks in the fall and winter.  Masks are here to stay for a while.

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2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I think it all depends on if the curve stays flat and we don't have clusters at rinks in the fall and winter.  Masks are here to stay for a while.

I think the curve will spike up again all of October!  LOL

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38 minutes ago, Scooby Doo said:

I think the curve will spike up again all of October!  LOL

👍🏻

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Bigger worry with college hockey is that the programs get cut altogether.  Quite a few schools are cutting sports.  Some will not survive the pandemic.   Quick check of Forbes College Financial Health Rating for some DIII programs (D was lowest score):

 

Chatham D

Robert Morris D

Elmira D

Lebanon Valley C

King's College C

 

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Posted (edited)

 

53 minutes ago, carroll81 said:

Bigger worry with college hockey is that the programs get cut altogether.  Quite a few schools are cutting sports.  Some will not survive the pandemic.   Quick check of Forbes College Financial Health Rating for some DIII programs (D was lowest score):

 

Chatham D

Robert Morris D

Elmira D

Lebanon Valley C

King's College C

 

Yikes... I can see that there isn't much financial upside to college hockey - for the colleges but didn't think that those programs might be cut altoghether.

 

Edited by Scooby Doo

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59 minutes ago, carroll81 said:

Bigger worry with college hockey is that the programs get cut altogether.  Quite a few schools are cutting sports.  Some will not survive the pandemic.   Quick check of Forbes College Financial Health Rating for some DIII programs (D was lowest score):

 

Chatham D

Robert Morris D

Elmira D

Lebanon Valley C

King's College C

 

Yep This would be my biggest worry too.  

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1 hour ago, Scooby Doo said:

 

Yikes... I can see that there isn't much financial upside to college hockey - for the colleges but didn't think that those programs might be cut altoghether.

 

You can blame the schools for not marketing very well. 

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On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 1:47 PM, nemesis8679 said:

You can blame the schools for not marketing very well. 

Big disagreement from me on this statement, sorry.  Blame the schools for not marketing well?  So, who in the Pittsburgh area that follows hockey can actually say, "gee, I didn't know of the NCAA programs at Chatham and RMU, or the ACHA programs at Slippery Rock, IUP, Cal, Pitt, Duquesne, RMU etc...."?

Nope, the problem with our college hockey in the area always has and always will be a lack of support by the community for anything to do with hockey that doesn't have the name Crosby are Lemieux attached to it.  Can't tell you how many times I had stood at Alpha years ago and heard kids coming out of the locker room saying, "hey dad look Duquesne is playing.  Dad's response, "come on son, lets go everyone is waiting for us over at Primanti's"!

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16 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

Big disagreement from me on this statement, sorry.  Blame the schools for not marketing well?  So, who in the Pittsburgh area that follows hockey can actually say, "gee, I didn't know of the NCAA programs at Chatham and RMU, or the ACHA programs at Slippery Rock, IUP, Cal, Pitt, Duquesne, RMU etc...."?

Nope, the problem with our college hockey in the area always has and always will be a lack of support by the community for anything to do with hockey that doesn't have the name Crosby are Lemieux attached to it.  Can't tell you how many times I had stood at Alpha years ago and heard kids coming out of the locker room saying, "hey dad look Duquesne is playing.  Dad's response, "come on son, lets go everyone is waiting for us over at Primanti's"!

Truth.

I attended numerous Three Rivers Classics when they were held at Consol.  RMU was the host team while Yale, St. Cloud State, UMASS Lowell, Bowling Green, Boston College and Penn State were attendees.  The crowd sizes were decent at first, then became a disaster every year and if you waited a month or so after tickets went on sale, they could be had on Groupon at a fraction of face value.  

Each year the tournament was played the attendance was less and less.  Sad, but true in that this area does not support college hockey.

https://www.rmusentrymedia.com/sports/mens-hockey-schedule-2019-2020/

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33 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

Big disagreement from me on this statement, sorry.  Blame the schools for not marketing well?  So, who in the Pittsburgh area that follows hockey can actually say, "gee, I didn't know of the NCAA programs at Chatham and RMU, or the ACHA programs at Slippery Rock, IUP, Cal, Pitt, Duquesne, RMU etc...."?

Nope, the problem with our college hockey in the area always has and always will be a lack of support by the community for anything to do with hockey that doesn't have the name Crosby are Lemieux attached to it.  Can't tell you how many times I had stood at Alpha years ago and heard kids coming out of the locker room saying, "hey dad look Duquesne is playing.  Dad's response, "come on son, lets go everyone is waiting for us over at Primanti's"!

College hockey in general, but even more so in the Pittsburgh area is like that awesome band or tv show you find and love but it just doesn't get enough recognition no matter how much you try to spread the word. I think a lot of people see club hockey or ACHA as glorified beer league. RMU not being closer to the city center, and Chatham playing in a dump of a rink really hinder their exposure.

If Pitt was D1, had an on campus rink, and got a local name with $$$ to back them they would pack that arena every game. Think about how ridiculous that lists of "IF's" is though. Sucks that Pittsburgh isn't more of a hockey town but it is what it is. 

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I disagree with this a little. My family struggles to go to anything extra during the hockey season because we are .... playing hockey. I would love to catch more of those things but we can only be in one place at a time. Maybe marketing should be broader than the hockey community. The RMU games are so much fun, but really....when do I have time? I would love to go to the Three Rivers Classic but someone is always in a tournament. We are lucky to catch one Wheelers or Phantoms game a season and a few Pens games. 

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Saucey is spot on.  Most families that have hockey players play for two teams, school and travel.  That is 4-5 days per week.  Then you watch or go to Pens games.  Add in other outside interests and It just doesn’t leave much room for college hockey viewing, unfortunately.  

 

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I think the problem is a mix if things. Yes, Pittsburgh is mainly a pro sports town. The kids and families that would attended (hockey families) are busy with their own hockey.  No on campus rinks kills these teams getting their own students out to a game. slippery rock playing a game at upmc, what college kid is going to make that drive to watch ? If they could walk to the game, they would be packed. Chatham all the way in butler, no students are going there.

 

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9 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

I think the problem is a mix if things. Yes, Pittsburgh is mainly a pro sports town. The kids and families that would attended (hockey families) are busy with their own hockey.  No on campus rinks kills these teams getting their own students out to a game. slippery rock playing a game at upmc, what college kid is going to make that drive to watch ? If they could walk to the game, they would be packed. Chatham all the way in butler, no students are going there.

 

 

21 minutes ago, Captain America said:

Saucey is spot on.  Most families that have hockey players play for two teams, school and travel.  That is 4-5 days per week.  Then you watch or go to Pens games.  Add in other outside interests and It just doesn’t leave much room for college hockey viewing, unfortunately.  

 

Both of you are right, I think. I don't have time for anything other than youth hockey once the season starts - I get to the Pens Kids game every year and that's about it. I do sometimes get to catch an RMU game if I'm out there for another reason, or if one of my kids' teams goes as a group.

I do think that on-campus rinks would make college hockey more successful, in that it would be something else for college kids to do on a random evening, but honestly I wonder if a college program could ever pay for a rink in Pittsburgh, even with rentals. I'd rather go to the island to see RMU than deal with campus, for my money.

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26 minutes ago, Lifelongbender said:

 

Both of you are right, I think. I don't have time for anything other than youth hockey once the season starts - I get to the Pens Kids game every year and that's about it. I do sometimes get to catch an RMU game if I'm out there for another reason, or if one of my kids' teams goes as a group.

I do think that on-campus rinks would make college hockey more successful, in that it would be something else for college kids to do on a random evening, but honestly I wonder if a college program could ever pay for a rink in Pittsburgh, even with rentals. I'd rather go to the island to see RMU than deal with campus, for my money.

Us adults would rather goto the island, college students want to have a few beers. Walk to the game and socialize. 
 

the majority of our schools could afford to build their own rinks with out a problem, they won’t because the sport doesn’t generate money, even the rmu ncaa d1 program. 
 

there are many acha programs that have on campus rinks. 

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9 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Us adults would rather goto the island, college students want to have a few beers. Walk to the game and socialize. 
 

the majority of our schools could afford to build their own rinks with out a problem, they won’t because the sport doesn’t generate money, even the rmu ncaa d1 program. 
 

there are many acha programs that have on campus rinks. 

Yeah, you're right on your first sentence. I admit that freely. I guess I'm an old guy who'd be driving to the rink from the South Hills, and not a kid who just wants to fill in a college Friday night.

As for the rest of it, you're right about the number of schools that do have on-campus rinks. I wouldn't disagree that Pitt could build a rink if they wanted to, and probably rent ice to Chatham, CMU, and Duquesne in the process. Of course, what I was getting at was your point that it wouldn't really be economically smart because it wouldn't make any money. Especially considering the cost of building one in Oakland.

 

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18 minutes ago, Lifelongbender said:

Yeah, you're right on your first sentence. I admit that freely. I guess I'm an old guy who'd be driving to the rink from the South Hills, and not a kid who just wants to fill in a college Friday night.

As for the rest of it, you're right about the number of schools that do have on-campus rinks. I wouldn't disagree that Pitt could build a rink if they wanted to, and probably rent ice to Chatham, CMU, and Duquesne in the process. Of course, what I was getting at was your point that it wouldn't really be economically smart because it wouldn't make any money. Especially considering the cost of building one in Oakland.

 

Yes, yes and yes but look at it this way, Pitt has probably waste a million in the last 10 years doing feasibility study’s for a Ncaa hockey program. They have the money to waste, it would do more for the local hockey fan base than a pro team. I would be willing to bet the pens do not want pitt to have ncca d1 hockey in the city, all those college kids that walk up for late tickets wouldn’t waste the money on the pro game anymore. 

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Ah, don't get me started on Pitt.  The school absolutely hates the hockey club teams and gives them zero support.  Trust me, they would love to kick the hockey club out, and the club battles with the school constantly over stupid stuff (like uniform colors and the use of the cathedral image). 

Go out on youtube and take a look at other schools like Dayton, Louisville or Ohio's broadcasts.  Multiple cameras, student announcers, interviews with players in between periods, and scores and graphics during the broadcast.  Then look at a school like Pitt and player who is a healthy scratch holding an iPad in the stands.  Embarrassing. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

Ah, don't get me started on Pitt.  The school absolutely hates the hockey club teams and gives them zero support.  Trust me, they would love to kick the hockey club out, and the club battles with the school constantly over stupid stuff (like uniform colors and the use of the cathedral image). 

Go out on youtube and take a look at other schools like Dayton, Louisville or Ohio's broadcasts.  Multiple cameras, student announcers, interviews with players in between periods, and scores and graphics during the broadcast.  Then look at a school like Pitt and player who is a healthy scratch holding an iPad in the stands.  Embarrassing. 

 

I honestly wouldn’t doubt the pens have influence on this. They want to be the only game in town. If Duquesne had a small on campus rink for their program, the pro team would lose money. The students would pack the campus rink, the same students that always partake in the pens game time ticket program. I can’t remember what it’s called. They pens needed those tickets sold back before all the sell outs at consol. Be assured they don’t want that program gone. In a few more years when Crosby & company retire or live on the pens will need those students to sell tickets.

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16 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

Ah, don't get me started on Pitt.  The school absolutely hates the hockey club teams and gives them zero support.  Trust me, they would love to kick the hockey club out, and the club battles with the school constantly over stupid stuff (like uniform colors and the use of the cathedral image). 

Go out on youtube and take a look at other schools like Dayton, Louisville or Ohio's broadcasts.  Multiple cameras, student announcers, interviews with players in between periods, and scores and graphics during the broadcast.  Then look at a school like Pitt and player who is a healthy scratch holding an iPad in the stands.  Embarrassing. 

 

I have been to about a dozen OU games ( Ohio University ) and every game was a sellout.  It did not matter whom they played - strong student support because the rink is on campus and lots of moms/dads and kids at the games.

Pitt football attendance is a disaster also, and it does not help students have to take buses to the games at Heinz Field.  The college games I have attended - Penn State, Miami, OU and Bowling Green all have rinks on campus and have robust support from the students and neighboring residents.  

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44 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Yes, yes and yes but look at it this way, Pitt has probably waste a million in the last 10 years doing feasibility study’s for a Ncaa hockey program. They have the money to waste, it would do more for the local hockey fan base than a pro team. I would be willing to bet the pens do not want pitt to have ncca d1 hockey in the city, all those college kids that walk up for late tickets wouldn’t waste the money on the pro game anymore. 

And you may be right about them having the money if they wanted to spend it. Actually wanting to spend it on hockey is another thing entirely.

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45 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

I have been to about a dozen OU games ( Ohio University ) and every game was a sellout.  It did not matter whom they played - strong student support because the rink is on campus and lots of moms/dads and kids at the games.

Pitt football attendance is a disaster also, and it does not help students have to take buses to the games at Heinz Field.  The college games I have attended - Penn State, Miami, OU and Bowling Green all have rinks on campus and have robust support from the students and neighboring residents.  

No doubt that a rink on or very near campus would help with the students attending.  Others in the community will never support it as we have discussed in this thread and the other.  I know they were looking at the Armory at one time to split with Chatham, Pitt and Duquesne but it never seemed to get off the ground. 

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Posted (edited)

Supposedly the Armory is still in the works. I know someone involved in the project. But "still in the works" in this context means somethings similar to "planned for when we hit the lottery", I think. There are too many obstacles to this project. It's a perfect building, but in a literal residential neighborhood with no parking. It's hard to imagine how enough cars could get into, and out of, this area, to support a serious hockey program. Or how the locals would be able to tolerate the traffic on top of the serious congestion already there.

Edited by Lifelongbender

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