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HockeyDad23

Travel & Pens Elite Tryouts

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I also believe the vengeance tryout as fundraiser thing is pretty common knowledge out there - no way I know if it is true or not but that's the major perception.  

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Heard they just jumped their price to play $600

Total cost for Pee Wee and Bantam

$5600 plus $500 goes to Coach $6100

plus all your travel.

 

Have to Out price the Icemen they were prices at $5000.

 

If you pay this to play hockey your out of your mind.

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Sounds like a popularity contest or fraternity. My kids just want to play hockey at the highest level. This too me sounds like a money grab to take weekend vacations to non vacationing spots

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Hockey dad, if your kid plays at the AAA level, you’ll have to take the good with the bad.  Generally, if your kid is good enough, his/her play speaks for itself.  If you’ve been around hockey, as I assume you have, this message board can’t be your first go round with this topic.  Coming off as a newb, as the kids say, isn’t working. 

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Wow

 

no half truths from me. It really doesn’t matter to me where anybody takes their kid. As far as the picture/poster that is the 08 schedule.

 

as far as the tryout I believe we had 6 kids tryout that were not on the previous team and not that I am an advanced scout but there really wasn’t anybody that I would consider was better than anyone on the previous team.

 

if you go back to the beginning of the original post I was obviously having a good conversation with an 08 elite parent and did not have anything bad to say until somebody else chimed in. I don’t know who it was but I’m pretty sure it was a former jets parent. I use my real name not a screen name so anybody who has an 08 Knows this is me.  

I’m not trying to sell anything, I will say it again that I think there is a lot of good players on both the teams.  I have been around half of those kids for a long time and know first hand that they are good athletes.

I think having both teams is very beneficial to the whole 08 class.

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5 minutes ago, Big Earn said:

Hockey dad, if your kid plays at the AAA level, you’ll have to take the good with the bad.  Generally, if your kid is good enough, his/her play speaks for itself.  If you’ve been around hockey, as I assume you have, this message board can’t be your first go round with this topic.  Coming off as a newb, as the kids say, isn’t working. 

My first time on this forum was my first post. Secondly, my kids dont play AAA hockey. Frankly I dont think what I have learned here that play does speak for itself. Sounds like a lot of politics and parents living vicariously through their kids hoping they make it to the NHL at age 9. I can totally tell as a “newb” you are one that makes your kids do drills in your basement and yell and scream at the games. Chill fella. Life is too short.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, HockeyDad23 said:

My first time on this forum was my first post. Secondly, my kids dont play AAA hockey. Frankly I dont think what I have learned here that play does speak for itself. Sounds like a lot of politics and parents living vicariously through their kids hoping they make it to the NHL at age 9. I can totally tell as a “newb” you are one that makes your kids do drills in your basement and yell and scream at the games. Chill fella. Life is too short.

Thanks for the attempt at characterizating my parenting.  If I upset you, then apparently I’ve said something that is true.  All I’m saying is you aren’t new to hockey around this area.  Go to a tryout and see for yourself, since you know how short life is, give your kid a shot.  

Edited by Big Earn

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3 hours ago, Rico said:

The Pens are not political. With all due respect to said individuals, I won’t name names but there have been some heavy hitters with kids trying out, in the program.....Execs, pro’s, former pro’s and I can’t name one single case where a kid was put on a team, put on a team he/she didn’t belong on due to outside influences.

 

 

PPE is a great organization,  so don't get me wrong.  But with all do respect they have the MOST political influences I have every seen in the 8yrs my kid has been playing hockey. 1 is definitely an Execs kid that wouldn't make a low AA travel team, the Pros kids have been placed well, ex pros I don't know and the people with DEEP pockets definitely influence a lot. I have seen 2 parents that would go into the coaches office before and after practices (their kids are good and placed well) but lines would be jacked or kids moved for no reason.  Those parents have cronies that leech onto them to try and get their kids ahead. It's kind of funny to watch how desperate some people are to get their kids ahead instead of telling/helping them work harder. 

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15 hours ago, Rico said:

The Pens are not political. With all due respect to said individuals, I won’t name names but there have been some heavy hitters with kids trying out, in the program.....Execs, pro’s, former pro’s and I can’t name one single case where a kid was put on a team, put on a team he/she didn’t belong on due to outside influences.

 

 

All I can say is wow.  That is a bold statement to make on here, you have got balls the size on boulders on this one.  

Brace for impact, I think there are a lot of people on here that will challenge you on this.

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TIER 1 AAA Hockey expect to spend over $10k/year no matter what team you play for.  AA teams that travel pay over $5k/year.  Hockey is expensive.

 

Hard to argue the results of the Pens.  I copied this from a post on another thread.  The money may very well be worth it.

 

Below is a summary of https://www.myhockeyrankings.com/ for the USA hockey mid-am district. The top 6 teams in each division are eligible to participate in mid-am district playdowns in March 2019 to determine the district representative to the Tier 1 USA hockey national tournament in April 2019. Presently, the U18 division appears wide-open with any of the teams listed could make a run over the next 3 months for the district banner. Pittsburgh Penguins Elite appear to have a tight grip on each division below midget major.

2018-19 USA Mid-Am District Midget 18U Tier 1 Rankings

 

   

 

 

Team

 

Record

 

Rating

 

1

 

Culver Academies Prep

 

10-6-0

 

97.67

 

2

 

Pittsburgh Esmark Stars 18U AAA

 

28-9-1

 

96.83

 

3

 

Gilmour Academy Prep

 

21-9-2

 

96.83

 

4

 

Pittsburgh Penguins Elite 18U AAA

 

19-14-0

 

96.36

 

5

 

Ohio Blue Jackets 18U AAA

 

10-20-0

 

95.19

 

6

 

Cleveland Barons 18U AAA

 

11-18-0

 

94.69

 

7

 

Pittsburgh Predators 18U AAA

 

16-10-3

 

94.63

 

 

 

2018-19 USA Mid-Am District Midget 16U Tier 1 Rankings

 

1

 

Pittsburgh Penguins Elite 16U AAA

 

26-9-0

 

97.47

 

2

 

Pittsburgh Esmark Stars 16U AAA

 

19-14-2

 

94.01

 

3

 

Ohio Blue Jackets 16U AAA

 

12-19-1

 

93.92

 

4

 

Culver Academies 16U AAA

 

7-6-2

 

93.52

 

5

 

Cleveland Barons 16U AAA

 

7-23-0

 

92.72

 

6

 

Indianapolis Racers 16U AAA

 

13-14-3

 

92.26

 

7

 

Pittsburgh (PHA) Icemen 16U AAA

 

14-15-5

 

92.13

 

 

 

2018-19 USA Mid-Am District Midget 15U Tier 1 Rankings

 

1

 

Pittsburgh Penguins Elite 15U AAA

 

29-9-0

 

95.01

 

2

 

Sylvania North Stars 15U AAA

 

30-12-4

 

92.12

 

3

 

Indy Jr Fuel 15U AAA

 

17-11-3

 

91.98

 

4

 

Pittsburgh Predators 15U AAA

 

19-9-4

 

91.49

 

5

 

Pittsburgh Esmark Stars 15U AAA

 

19-12-2

 

91.12

 

6

 

Ohio Blue Jackets 15U AAA

 

9-20-1

 

90.89

 

7

 

Pittsburgh (PHA) Icemen 15U AAA

 

15-15-4

 

89.28

 

8

 

Cleveland Barons 15U AAA

 

8-22-1

 

88.67

 

 

 

2018-19 USA Mid-Am District Midget 14U Tier 1 Rankings

 

1

 

Pittsburgh Penguins Elite 04 AAA

 

21-16-2

 

98.27

 

2

 

Ohio Blue Jackets 04 AAA

 

18-7-7

 

96.13

 

3

 

Pittsburgh Penguins Elite (Black) 04 AAA

 

18-15-3

 

93.44

 

4

 

Indy Jr Fuel 04 AAA

 

5-16-4

 

93.01

 

5

 

Pittsburgh Vengeance 04 AAA

 

18-18-4

 

92.77

 

6

 

Cleveland Barons 04 AAA

 

10-21-3

 

92.12

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20 hours ago, Moj said:

I guess when I said limited travel I should have clarified that we did not have that many travel dates scheduled at the beginning of the season. We decided as a group of parents to add a few during the season when our team received invites from top 5 teams in the country. As a group we chose to travel to play against these teams and nobody in the Vengeance organization told us we had to travel. Since you seem pretty good with technology take a picture of last years schedule, if my memory is correct didn't that other team go to Boston for 4 games against 2 different opponents. I wander how many families gave the thumbs up for that trip. The thing I like about the Vengeance is we have some input on the schedule and where and who we choose to play. If you are a high level team you have to travel to play competition. Example, not sure if it is to the minute but I believe the 11th ranked team and he 7th ranked team are about 25 minutes down the turnpike. As a parent on the Vengeance I know for a fact the large majority of the families would like to play the other team as often as possible and even speaking to several families on the other team they seem to feel the same. I wonder Why the AAA Detroit teams play each other and Chicago AAA teams play one another. Come to think of it for the life of me I just can't seem to wrap my head around this. Can you shed some insight on this in a 3-1 game with shots on goal pretty even everybody I talked to seem to agree it was a good game.

Is that the 3-1 game that happened way back in November discussed on the thread where the two dads were getting into a play by play over who was the better team? I really have to go and Livebarn that one, I missed the squirt game of the decade, apparently.

You could definitely use that in Vengeance promotional materials. We only lost to the Pens Elite by two!

I don't blame Pens Elite if they don't want to play local teams, with that kind of reaction. The level of obsession with that game STILL is extraordinarily obnoxious.

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This is all very overwhelming. Also seems very expensive for kids under 14. I am curious what the driver is? Fun, play at high level, possiblity the kids goes on to bigger things? What are stats on kids “making it?”

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Posted (edited)

I think the Vengeance is different in that they practice on Friday nights and Sundays.  This makes it easier for some families to make practice, particularly if you live far away.  This, to me at least, is the difference between the two organizations.  I also think this makes it easier to play a second sport in season.  I have no idea how a kid plays tackle football and hockey for the Elite.  I have been told that tackle football is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday.  Off days are Friday and Sunday. And you aren't supposed to miss practices.    

As far as travel.  I think the 08 did travel less when they played PAHL last year.  This is what the 09 did this year. 

As far as tryouts for the Vengeance, one friend's son made the 08 team this year.  So, they did take another kid.  I think there really aren't that many kids in PAHL that can make the Vengeance.  Same goes for the Elite.   The Black is a different story.  There is a difference in skating between PAHL AA kids and AAA kids.   And who knows if these kids will actually tryout.      

Edited by twoboys
used bold

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HockeyDad23, the "driver" is different for everybody.  Some of  it is parents pushing their kids, some of it is the kids pushing themselves and looking to play with and against a better level of competition.  As far as kids "making it", it seems like PPE has players each year commit to D1 programs in both their boys and girls programs.  That's not to say that those players were playing for PPE when they were in the younger age groups, it just shows that those players were members of the program when they made their commitment.  

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45 minutes ago, Snap Shot said:

HockeyDad23, the "driver" is different for everybody.  Some of  it is parents pushing their kids, some of it is the kids pushing themselves and looking to play with and against a better level of competition.  As far as kids "making it", it seems like PPE has players each year commit to D1 programs in both their boys and girls programs.  That's not to say that those players were playing for PPE when they were in the younger age groups, it just shows that those players were members of the program when they made their commitment.  

Makes sense. 

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2 hours ago, HockeyDad23 said:

I am curious what the driver is?

Until the scouts come knocking, the driver should only be fun - for both your player and you.  Remember, it's a game.  Don't get caught up in all these labels like "Elite", "AAA", "AA".  You will surely hear from coaches and other hockey parents if there is any possibility of your player playing at a higher level.  For now, focus on the fun, and you will be glad that you did.

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20 hours ago, PeterThePuck said:

Heard they just jumped their price to play $600

Total cost for Pee Wee and Bantam

$5600 plus $500 goes to Coach $6100

plus all your travel.

 

Have to Out price the Icemen they were prices at $5000.

 

If you pay this to play hockey your out of your mind.

Are you referring to the PPE or Vengeance?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, HockeyDad23 said:

This is all very overwhelming. Also seems very expensive for kids under 14. I am curious what the driver is? Fun, play at high level, possiblity the kids goes on to bigger things? What are stats on kids “making it?”

What is the driver????

For the most part kids want to play competitive hockey with their friends.  I know many instances where Kid A gets on a higher team than his friends and mentions to dear old dad - "I want to play with my buds.".............we all know how that conversation ends.

Another driver?  Dad and mom can brag to all of their friends that their 9 year old plays AAA level hockey.  You see them, wearing their "elite" gear to all of the neighborhood block parties.  And at $10K+ a year it is a bargain at any price.

Edited by fafa fohi

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4 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Until the scouts come knocking, the driver should only be fun - for both your player and you.  Remember, it's a game.  Don't get caught up in all these labels like "Elite", "AAA", "AA".  You will surely hear from coaches and other hockey parents if there is any possibility of your player playing at a higher level.  For now, focus on the fun, and you will be glad that you did.

This is so true.  Once he gets older, there will always be an elite program for him/her to tryout for.  Focus on the fun and keep your player competing against kids of near talent and ability.  If he has truly outgrown the AA level and not on the AAA bubble, then he will be able to make the next step. 

The PPE is political but most organizations are.  If anyone tells you that there aren't favors being done, then they aren't paying attention.  One thing is for sure, if your kid is truly worth of making the PPE (not a bubble kid), then the coach will take him.  Typically the bubble kids are the ones that will get passed up for a kid that has a dad affiliated with the Pens organization.  And if he is on that bubble, then AA really isn't a bad option for your kid.    

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So speaking of the vengeance someone told me today that a couple 2011s (lol) were already promised spots on the 2010 vengeance team for next year. Glad I don't have kids that young but that verifies to me the fake tryout process. I guess we will see if it's true once the roster is released. 

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15 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

So speaking of the vengeance someone told me today that a couple 2011s (lol) were already promised spots on the 2010 vengeance team for next year. Glad I don't have kids that young but that verifies to me the fake tryout process. I guess we will see if it's true once the roster is released. 

Not sure that is true.  2010 Vengeance team will probably play PAHL as first year squirts.  Just as the 08 did two seasons ago and the 09 team did this year.  2011 can not play squirt in PAHL this season.  Practice players, maybe???

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23 hours ago, HockeyDad23 said:

This is all very overwhelming. Also seems very expensive for kids under 14. I am curious what the driver is? Fun, play at high level, possiblity the kids goes on to bigger things? What are stats on kids “making it?”

The stats on kids "making it" are .000001%

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