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Armstrong vs Mars incident


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10 hours ago, unknown said:

whoa would you look at that, the football players that were ringleaders get to play their playoff game tomorrow yet the club hockey team that isn’t funded by the school has to pay for repercussions for those players. cool. 

Actions like this have plagued western pa hockey for 20 years. It will never change. The schools need to take over the teams. NA is the only school district to step up I think. it took somewhat of a similar situation for them to do this but my old mind is failing me anymore. I’m sure someone around here can post the exact reason. Regardless, varsity hockey would be in a much better place if it was a official school sport. no more boards, no more parents running things. 

Edited by Danner27
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18 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Actions like this have plagued western pa hockey for 20 years. It will never change. The schools need to take over the teams. NA is the only school district to step up I think. it took somewhat of a similar situation for them to do this but my old mind is failing me anymore. I’m sure someone around here can post the exact reason. Regardless, varsity hockey would be in a much better place if it was a official school sport. no more boards, no more parents running things. 

So you mean the PIAA needs to take over Hockey?  I can't believe it didn't happen along time ago.  Certainly Hockey has as much of a following as say Volleyball.  Coming next to the PIAA is female wrestling.  Why is there no place for Hockey?  Is the PIAA saying it's to expensive or are the School Districts quite OK with Parents footing the bill to play?  It will never change. Too accepted now.

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On 11/3/2021 at 1:11 PM, oldhockeydad said:

I have been following this thread and incident all week, and just wanted to throw my two cents in.  I had two boys that played both PAHL and PIHL hockey, and as such saw many, many games at the Belmont rink over a 20 year period.  Both of my guys are retired now, and we've been out of the game for 8 years.  However, if anybody pulled me aside, told me of an event like this, and then asked me to guess the location, I'd have had no difficulty in naming Belmont.  There have been numerous disturbing events at that rink over the years, and the extremely large majority of them involved the Kittanning high school crowd.  I've certainly witnessed crude obscene chants over the years.  That's nothing.  I've seen old ladies spit over the balcony onto the visiting bench.  I've seen vile hand gestures made to refs and to visiting players and coaches often times by the mothers of players.  I've seen fights in the stands and out in that parking lot.  The list of events goes on and on.  There's never been adequate security there, but most importantly, there's never been any respect for fellow human beings.  That place is truly a black hole for bad behavior.

I will say that not every organization there has had this problem.   The Freeport crowd was mild in comparison.  The Armstrong youth organization was mild in comparison.  It's important that not every team and organization in that region get painted with the same broad brush.  But trust me, anyone who has been involved in youth or high school hockey over the last 15 years knows where the bad apples are in that area.  

It's distressing to see that even here people are making excuses for this behavior.  No wonder the kids up there are out of control, when even some parents seem to think that this level of uncivilized behavior is acceptable.

 

You and a few others have commented about your experiences at this rink, thank you.  Other than not allowing high school games to be played at this rink, perhaps PIHL has limited options.   This rink appears to have had issues for years.   While there is plenty of blame to go around, the rink management and rink owners (Armstrong County) deserve the most blame in my opinion.  The players, coaches, refs, fans and administrators all change over the years but this rink seems to be the one that stands out having a consistent long term problem.

I would suggest that others light a Flame and share their experiences/stories at this rink to educate the forum.  I'm sure the stories are out there, so please share them.

Hopefully the slap on the wrist by PIHL is not the end of justice here.  Statue of limitations won't end for a while.  Hopefully the family pursues action against the rink management and the rink owners (Armstrong County).  Nothing causes change like a big pinch to the pocketbook.  Even if the family doesn't need/want the money, it could be donated to a cause and help prevent this from occurring to another child.

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5 minutes ago, Shrimp Worters said:

 

You and a few others have commented about your experiences at this rink, thank you.  Other than not allowing high school games to be played at this rink, perhaps PIHL has limited options.   This rink appears to have had issues for years.   While there is plenty of blame to go around, the rink management and rink owners (Armstrong County) deserve the most blame in my opinion.  The players, coaches, refs, fans and administrators all change over the years but this rink seems to be the one that stands out having a consistent long term problem.

I would suggest that others light a Flame and share their experiences/stories at this rink to educate the forum.  I'm sure the stories are out there, so please share them.

Hopefully the slap on the wrist by PIHL is not the end of justice here.  Statue of limitations won't end for a while.  Hopefully the family pursues action against the rink management and the rink owners (Armstrong County).  Nothing causes change like a big pinch to the pocketbook.  Even if the family doesn't need/want the money, it could be donated to a cause and help prevent this from occurring to another child.

Seriously!  The rink owners are the problem? How about the people that go to the Rink?  The Rink owners have no responsibility to raise respectful kids!  Maybe the responsibility lies with the Armstrong Community and Parents of the disrespectful kids. I know if it's my kid we would have a serious talk and it would be along time before they would go to a game again.  I would be really disapointed in myself that I didn't teach them better.

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12 hours ago, unknown said:

you really didn’t give it much time. people are being suspended from school and we can’t have a students at any middle/high school game for the rest of the year and siblings have to be sitting with a parents.

So, how many got suspended?  When does the suspensions start?  And how are the suspensions?

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1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So you mean the PIAA needs to take over Hockey?  I can't believe it didn't happen along time ago.  Certainly Hockey has as much of a following as say Volleyball.  Coming next to the PIAA is female wrestling.  Why is there no place for Hockey?  Is the PIAA saying it's to expensive or are the School Districts quite OK with Parents footing the bill to play?  It will never change. Too accepted now.

I don’t know the reasons but if I had to guess - insurance, liability, the cost to rent ice etc. hockey has always been treated like a second son when it comes to western pa HS. When is was young an playing we practiced at 1am on a Saturday night. There was only 3 rinks If I recall in those days. The schools like to act involved because they all give the teams a few bucks every year. It just gives them a little control if they need it with out the liability of the sport in my opinion. These HS will drop a few hundred thousand a year to resurface football fields. There were two schools last year not reporting covid contact on the hockey teams due to the football playoffs starting. There are obviously plenty of rinks now, it’s time for the schools to take responsibility and start running the teams. Eliminating all these boards run by parents would remove a lot of nepotism and give the coaches better control of the teams IMO. 
 

can anyone share how NA is running their hockey program these days ? It’s my understanding they are the only school in western pa that runs the hockey team. It took some sort of incident for them to take it over a few years back. 

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2 hours ago, Shrimp Worters said:

 

You and a few others have commented about your experiences at this rink, thank you.  Other than not allowing high school games to be played at this rink, perhaps PIHL has limited options.   This rink appears to have had issues for years.   While there is plenty of blame to go around, the rink management and rink owners (Armstrong County) deserve the most blame in my opinion.  The players, coaches, refs, fans and administrators all change over the years but this rink seems to be the one that stands out having a consistent long term problem.

I would suggest that others light a Flame and share their experiences/stories at this rink to educate the forum.  I'm sure the stories are out there, so please share them.

Hopefully the slap on the wrist by PIHL is not the end of justice here.  Statue of limitations won't end for a while.  Hopefully the family pursues action against the rink management and the rink owners (Armstrong County).  Nothing causes change like a big pinch to the pocketbook.  Even if the family doesn't need/want the money, it could be donated to a cause and help prevent this from occurring to another child.

  What, exactly, are you going to sue for?  What is the statute of limitations that you are talking about?

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2 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Actions like this have plagued western pa hockey for 20 years. It will never change. The schools need to take over the teams. NA is the only school district to step up I think. it took somewhat of a similar situation for them to do this but my old mind is failing me anymore. I’m sure someone around here can post the exact reason. Regardless, varsity hockey would be in a much better place if it was a official school sport. no more boards, no more parents running things. 

  It would be nice, but the school principals and ADs (i.e. PIAA) will never vote for it.  The current high school hockey establishment (cartel leagues) will never suggest it.

The school districts will get involved these days.  At least in the East, the leagues talk to the districts about grades, etc.  Many teams are recognized by the schools (get varsity letters).  So, the principals and ADs will get involved if they have to, though they would prefer not to (lots of other things on their plates).

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6 minutes ago, carroll81 said:

  It would be nice, but the school principals and ADs (i.e. PIAA) will never vote for it.  The current high school hockey establishment (cartel leagues) will never suggest it.

The school districts will get involved these days.  At least in the East, the leagues talk to the districts about grades, etc.  Many teams are recognized by the schools (get varsity letters).  So, the principals and ADs will get involved if they have to, though they would prefer not to (lots of other things on their plates).

Verbatim here in western pa. 

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The head of the WPIAL was on Pittsburgh radio this morning (93.7 The Fan) and she addressed this exact question.  She alluded to it being a cost issue and said that hockey has its own league (PIHL) that handles the affairs of the league.  I worked in public education for years and had the chance to talk to a few athletic directors about why hockey wasn't an official school sport and was treated as a club sport.  The answers almost always had to do with cost, insurance, or Title IX requirements.  

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Armstrong won’t reveal student discipline for vulgar chants at female hockey goalie.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/hsother/2021/11/04/Armstrong-Mars-vulgar-chants-female-goalkeeper-hockey-PIHL-principal/stories/202111040190

Rumor (speculation?) is in-school suspensions earlier in the week and all football players and cheerleaders are able to participate tonight.

The Armstrong (Kittanning, PA) varsity football team has a home playoff game vs. Montour (McKees Rocks, PA) today @ 7p.

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If the rumor is true and they only got in school suspension , it is like saying if you do this 10 more time you are in big trouble. Belmont has been catering to Kittanning ,  AKA Armstrong, Armstrong Central Hockey for years. In the nineties they built on and made a locker room for Kittanning Hockey and only Kittanning players could use it. They acted like it was their rink and they were doing you a favor by letting you use it.   Armstrong county tax payers helped pay for the rink. Ford City and Freeport were treated like the red headed step children. 

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1 hour ago, my3sons said:

Armstrong won’t reveal student discipline for vulgar chants at female hockey goalie.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/hsother/2021/11/04/Armstrong-Mars-vulgar-chants-female-goalkeeper-hockey-PIHL-principal/stories/202111040190

Rumor (speculation?) is in-school suspensions earlier in the week and all football players and cheerleaders are able to participate tonight.

The Armstrong (Kittanning, PA) varsity football team has a home playoff game vs. Montour (McKees Rocks, PA) today @ 7p.

Football trumps all - if true, I’m not surprised. If true - I guess the principal’s post can be disregarded, just doing PR. Look what TJ did last year with covid cases, all to protect the football team. 

Edited by Danner27
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Many of the people responding to this topic who are outraged with the abusive conduct are the same people who have been abusing officials, probably even the exact ones on this game, for years. Ironic. Hopefully this incident forces us all to take a look at ourselves and our conduct at youth sports events.  Nothing more embarrassing for our kids on the ice than one of their parents making an ass of themselves in the stands. I sometimes wonder if the LiveBarn feed was pointed at the crowd how many people would be able to show the footage of themselves to their bosses at work on Monday. 

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This punishment is obviously a slap on the wrist for Armstrong but not sure what else the PIHL can really do.  They could have sent a strong message that this won’t be tolerated and brought the hammer down but chose to take a safe approach and that’s definitely understandable.  
 

Armstrong is one of the better teams in AA this year and I for one will be watching closely if they get to the PIHL’s biggest stage in the finals and let the league have to deal with that after letting the team off the hook here.  
 

I hope this dies down for the players sake after Monday and thank anyone with true intentions to change this sort of behavior going forward.  All of this starts at home.

Edited by sutton
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7 hours ago, Danner27 said:

can anyone share how NA is running their hockey program these days ? It’s my understanding they are the only school in western pa that runs the hockey team. It took some sort of incident for them to take it over a few years back. 

As with other schools, it's treated like a Varsity sport.  I'm not exactly sure how much money the school gives, but I've heard it's a fairly large amount when compared to other schools.   Players register in the same portal that is used for all school teams and eligibility requirements are no different.  The  Varsity head coach is pretty much the CEO of the entire program, but the AD has the final say.

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On 11/5/2021 at 12:22 PM, Corsi said:

The head of the WPIAL was on Pittsburgh radio this morning (93.7 The Fan) and she addressed this exact question.  She alluded to it being a cost issue and said that hockey has its own league (PIHL) that handles the affairs of the league.  I worked in public education for years and had the chance to talk to a few athletic directors about why hockey wasn't an official school sport and was treated as a club sport.  The answers almost always had to do with cost, insurance, or Title IX requirements.  

It would be interesting to see the costs of hockey vs. all the other sports the schools pay for. Including insurance, equipment, coaches, maintenance - everything. 

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On 11/5/2021 at 2:43 PM, sutton said:

This punishment is obviously a slap on the wrist for Armstrong but not sure what else the PIHL can really do.  They could have sent a strong message that this won’t be tolerated and brought the hammer down but chose to take a safe approach and that’s definitely understandable.  
 

Armstrong is one of the better teams in AA this year and I for one will be watching closely if they get to the PIHL’s biggest stage in the finals and let the league have to deal with that after letting the team off the hook here.  
 

I hope this dies down for the players sake after Monday and thank anyone with true intentions to change this sort of behavior going forward.  All of this starts at home.

yea, and honestly i understand that (let’s say) the NHL punishes the team (Caps and the bracelets or the Wings with octopi at one point) but these are kids. some are seniors that may never play competitively after this season. it wasn’t the teams fault and honestly as much as i  hate that i can’t go to any more games especially since i decided to not play varsity this year but it’s the safe call. 

Edited by Paul Baxter
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On 11/4/2021 at 7:51 PM, hockeyisgreat said:

You better go back and look at South Fayette!  Not sure why you are calling them a weak team!

No need to scores sheet and live barn show all. Started season playing subpar teams and just getting by. Met TJ last week went up 3 caught TJ sleeping. TJ woke up in the second and from there on out wasn't even a game..... So yea.  they are not very good just another average team at best 

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