WPA ACHA College Club Hockey

[Danner27]

I’m going to go on a small rant here for a second but this is also to inform parents. Western pa M1 “D1” teams. Pitt has to leave to CHMA that they could never win because they want “better competition”. Their fees to play are in the youth hockey AAA range now. The ACHA favors big name schools and known hockey schools  with their secret rankings. They won’t disclose thier formula. Their ACHA rankings were much better when they used my hockey rankings. Bias was harder to manipulate. Example - in the acha a OT loss counts straight up as a loss, you get zero points. A top 5 ranked team lost in OT last weekend, the acha put the game as a tie in the rankings formula and didn’t even try to hide it. In the standings it’s listed as a loss. 
 

Back to Pitt - the city game last weekend  was pitt vs duqesne. Duquesne is always at the bottom of the M1 rankings. Pitt won by one goal. I watched the live stream, I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how pitt is ranked as a top 20 team (well I know how but that’s another story) 
 

somehow duqense managed to get a series against Adrian this weekend, Adrian is always a top 10 team. I watched the feed for game one. Adrain just rolled lines and mainly played the 3rd & 4th lines. Here are the results of both games. 
 

80 shots a game! That’s like midget PPE or ESMARK playing a PAHL A major team.  this is what happens when western PA acha teams try to play with the real M1 teams. A lot of our western PA acha M1 teams (and Ohio) are run by local politics to a degree. Lots of Pahl & Pihl parent involvement, Elbow rubbing like the good old youth days. RMU & DUQ are the biggest offenders locally. RMU has kids on their top team that wouldn’t crack the top 10 on their second team. 

the point - don’t pick a college because you want the “D1”(M1) name. Pick a school that fits the education your child is looking for along with manageable debt / cost. It’s CLUB hockey - glorified BEER leauge. When a coach or “GM” tells you or your son they will put you on team 1 if you go there, tell them to put it in writting, they won’t. These guys get a bird dog for getting kids to enroll. 
 

/END RANT

 

If anyone wants to talk local acha club hockey, I guess do it here. 

 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Danner27

[Saucey]

I tried watching that first game. I didn't understand how Duquesne got those games, either. Why drive there for that and why did Adrian waste their time?

I saw some of that Duquesne Pitt game and thought some of what you said..how is Pitt ranked so high? There could be some rivalry fueling that outcome. Players out or something.

Club hockey is a nightmare to try and navigate. Adrian recruits heavily for their teams and tells you to play juniors first if you want to crack the M1 team. The hockey program is phenomenal. But the academics.....not so much. And outside of some hockey heads, who has ever heard of it? That's a problem when trying to get a job 

The academics need to come first.

RMU's plethora of club teams help fund that school. Those teams were not shut down. But there are some good programs at RMU, academic wise. And we know Pitt is a good school. 

Don't pick a school based on hockey. The practice times, the travel grind, getting injured....your kid may end up not playing. 

[Danner27]

Club hockey has become a nightmare for kids & parents to navigate as you said. That’s why I put up this post.
 

Goto a college that is affordable or the one that will give you and your kid the least amount of debt. Compound interest on those deferred until the student graduates loans is a killer. When it comes to western PA there isn’t a huge difference from M1 to M3. You are not going to see a M1 team beat a M3 team locally putting up a shot margin of 80-10. Parents and kids need to remember it’s just a club sport. Having the ability to still play & be part of something makes the college transition easier for many. 
 

as you stated, many many kids quit playing after a year or two anyway - fall behind on school work, tired of injuries, find other intrests etc. 

[dazedandconfused]

Danner, why do you hate everything related to hockey? Better yet, since you do, why not retire from here and find a hobby you might enjoy a bit more?

[Danner27]

5 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

Danner, why do you hate everything related to hockey? Better yet, since you do, why not retire from here and find a hobby you might enjoy a bit more?

Education. Tired of seeing kids and parents make bad choices they end up regretting. These kids only get so many years to play hockey. Sorry, someone has to tell it like it is. 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

2 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Education. Tired of seeing kids and parents make bad choices they end up regretting. These kids only get so many years to play hockey. Sorry, someone has to tell it like it is. 

I think the information you give is good. But the way you talk about how bad teams are, and by association how bad the players are, could probably be better left out of your comments. I have watched a number of club games through the years, at different levels of both men and women, and I have seen good hockey at all levels. Bad hockey sometimes too. Just because a player or team isn’t at the top of whatever team or league they are on/in doesn’t mean that they are incapable of playing sound hockey and even making amazing plays sometime. By your reasoning the only hockey worth watching has to be NHL. 

[hockeyisgreat]

34 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I think the information you give is good. But the way you talk about how bad teams are, and by association how bad the players are, could probably be better left out of your comments. I have watched a number of club games through the years, at different levels of both men and women, and I have seen good hockey at all levels. Bad hockey sometimes too. Just because a player or team isn’t at the top of whatever team or league they are on/in doesn’t mean that they are incapable of playing sound hockey and even making amazing plays sometime. By your reasoning the only hockey worth watching has to be NHL. 

Couldn't agree with you more!  Danner is always such a downer!  Starting to think that is just his personality.  I think he means well but just always comes off so negative!

[Danner27]

6 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I think the information you give is good. But the way you talk about how bad teams are, and by association how bad the players are, could probably be better left out of your comments. I have watched a number of club games through the years, at different levels of both men and women, and I have seen good hockey at all levels. Bad hockey sometimes too. Just because a player or team isn’t at the top of whatever team or league they are on/in doesn’t mean that they are incapable of playing sound hockey and even making amazing plays sometime. By your reasoning the only hockey worth watching has to be NHL. 

I didn’t say anything about any players, I mentioned the politics that are starting to build in club hockey coming from the parents. If stating our wpa acha teams can’t compete with the big time acha programs somehow offends you like I’m talking about the players - sorry I’m just stating the facts.
 

I’ve seen some great acha games locally over the years in the m1 & m3 divisions around wpa & ohio. You are missing the point of my post. 

[Danner27]

6 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Couldn't agree with you more!  Danner is always such a downer!  Starting to think that is just his personality.  I think he means well but just always comes off so negative!

I’m old - it’s hard to sugar coat things. I just tell it like it is. Both of my boys played, I played & coached (never them). I’ve watched how much the game has changed since I was young, all the way up to my youngest aging out and being done. I’ve watched the sport turn into pure business at the youth level, now I’m watching the college level - both acha & ncaa turn into pure businesses. 

[hockeyisgreat]

Wow, next will be the grandkids!  Do you think your boys would encourage them to play?  

[Danner27]

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Wow, next will be the grandkids!  Do you think your boys would encourage them to play?  

Hard to say, oldest is getting married this summer. Both my boys played for years at ppe & esmark. I’d imagine they will get their kids into hockey but be smart about it. Play for fun. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Danner27

[hockeyisgreat]

22 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Hard to say, oldest is getting married this summer. Both my boys played for years at ppe & esmark. I’d imagine they will get their kids into hockey but be smart about it. Play for fun. 

Playing for fun is the only reason to play.  I've seen a whole lot of kids quit a whole lot of different sports when it's no longer fun! Burnout occurs in all sports and all walks of life for that matter!  The kids in the upper levels aren't always the most talented!

[Law]

Just when I thought I was out; Danner, you pulled me back in. A few facts regarding your comments about ACHA and Pitt.

1. PITT won the CHMA regular season championship 4 out of the last 5 years Pitt was in the league. After the 1st 2 years, the league decided to give the automatic bid to the playoff winner rather than the regular season champ. The handwriting was on the wall as Pitt went 26-1-1 in league the last 2 years.

2. ACHACHA M1-semantics, why does it bother you?

3. There is not a player on the Pitt roster that came to Pitt just to play hockey. They came to get a good education AND play hockey. 

4. The cost to play hockey at Pitt this year was completely funded by sponsors and fundraising. Includes jerseys, shells, gloves, helmets, equipment bags, warm up windsuits, travel, hotels and food on the road, sticks, etc.

5. If a game in the ACHA is tied after regulation it goes into the computer as a tie. Has always been that way

6. There is no political or parental interference at Pitt.

Well there Danner, I fixed it for you. Know the facts b4 you criticize  a program that people have worked hard to build. You can fact check any of this.

Edited February 14, 2023 by forbin
deleted the unnecessary amount of space after this post. be better than this please

[Danner27]

Lol we found the Pitt parent! Nice job trying to trash the board and this thread with 10k space bar presses. hopefully the mods can fix it. 
 

your spaz out proved my point further,  but I said rmu & duq have the biggest political bs & parent involment, not pitt, but yep it’s there to and obvious from you losing your mind here hoping this thread gets locked.
 

Pitt can only manage a 1 goal win vs a m1 program that is consistently at the bottom of the rankings, turn around the next day to lose to drexler a mid level m1 program. 
 

oh but you won a few regular season (best record) in the CHMA ? But you couldn’t win the CHMA playoffs to make it to nationals. Lost to JCU last year. A team that is mainly young Ohio HS players, not many at all with any junior experience. Time to leave the chma, pray your schedule gets you to nationals. Sorry buddy, that’s the way it is. Confrence playoff winners goto nationals then the last few spots get filled in based on teams national rankings. Don’t like it - blame the Michigan teams that run the acha our get your people from pitt down to the yearly acha meeting in Tampa to vote! I get it, you’re  trying to work the system to get to nationals, I don’t even blame you for trying. local d3 teams have it worse - it’s only based on rankings who makes nationals, leauge / confrence winners don’t matter. No western pa d3 team or eastern Ohio d3 will ever again make nationals. 1/2 of the top 20 are Michigan teams. 
 

please don’t smack your keyboard for 3hrs again if you do reply. Calm down. It’s club hockey, not ncaa hockey. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Danner27

[aaaahockey]

Out of curiosity what is the makeup of a typical ACHA program?  Do they recruit you before you apply to the college or.are there walk-ons for the team?  If it's mixed, what is the percentage who just walk on after they choose a college? 

[Danner27]

4 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Out of curiosity what is the makeup of a typical ACHA program?  Do they recruit you before you apply to the college or.are there walk-ons for the team?  If it's mixed, what is the percentage who just walk on after they choose a college? 

It’s pretty much a mix, even locally. The big programs ? Adrain, etc they are recruited like a ncaa d1 team. A lot of 20-21 year old freshman. Nahl bottom kids, ncdc etc. A lot of kids that passed on ncaa d3 - they get treated better at these big time acha programs, they don’t have to follow ncaa rules, drug testing etc. since ncaa d3 does not give out sports scholarships for hockey, they go the acha route getting a little merit scholarships. A program like Adrian has a special dorm just for the hockey players due to their age. Generally the big programs don’t cost any money to play. Last I heard rmu was around $2500, iup was around 3k, john caroll who won the chma last year was like 2k (told this from a local player currently on the team). 

[hockeyisgreat]

Great info!  Doesn't Adrian have a D-3 NCAA team also?  The guy who started all that at Adrian was at Washington & Jefferson College in Washington,PA.  Jeff Docking was a VP at W&J. Talked a great deal about a D-3 Team at W&J and had some alumni investors for a rink in Washington.  President resigned!  He wanted the job and didn't get it. Went out to Adrian as President, started hockey program there and the rest is history.  I believe his kids played.  When he was at W&J the club team was good.  He left, no one cared and the rest is history at W&J. (No program now)

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Great info!  Doesn't Adrian have a D-3 NCAA team also?  The guy who started all that at Adrian was at Washington & Jefferson College in Washington,PA.  Jeff Docking was a VP at W&J. Talked a great deal about a D-3 Team at W&J and had some alumni investors for a rink in Washington.  President resigned!  He wanted the job and didn't get it. Went out to Adrian as President, started hockey program there and the rest is history.  I believe his kids played.  When he was at W&J the club team was good.  He left, no one cared and the rest is history at W&J. (No program now)

Yep. He wanted to build W&J into what he turned Adrian into. Ncaa d3 with a High end club team. I knew he had alumni investing etc but never knew they wanted to build a rink. I assumed in those days it would be at southpointe were the club team played. I’m sure that would have worked while they worked on their own rink project. I never knew the reason for him leaving, thank for that info. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Danner27

[fafa fohi]

19 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Lol we found the Pitt parent! Nice job trying to trash the board and this thread with 10k space bar presses. hopefully the mods can fix it. 
 

your spaz out proved my point further,  but I said rmu & duq have the biggest political bs & parent involment, not pitt, but yep it’s there to and obvious from you losing your mind here hoping this thread gets locked.
 

Pitt can only manage a 1 goal win vs a m1 program that is consistently at the bottom of the rankings, turn around the next day to lose to drexler a mid level m1 program. 
 

oh but you won a few regular season (best record) in the CHMA ? But you couldn’t win the CHMA playoffs to make it to nationals. Lost to JCU last year. A team that is mainly young Ohio HS players, not many at all with any junior experience. Time to leave the chma, pray your schedule gets you to nationals. Sorry buddy, that’s the way it is. Confrence playoff winners goto nationals then the last few spots get filled in based on teams national rankings. Don’t like it - blame the Michigan teams that run the acha our get your people from pitt down to the yearly acha meeting in Tampa to vote! I get it, you’re  trying to work the system to get to nationals, I don’t even blame you for trying. local d3 teams have it worse - it’s only based on rankings who makes nationals, leauge / confrence winners don’t matter. No western pa d3 team or eastern Ohio d3 will ever again make nationals. 1/2 of the top 20 are Michigan teams. 
 

please don’t smack your keyboard for 3hrs again if you do reply. Calm down. It’s club hockey, not ncaa hockey. 

Angry much?  And you are telling others to calm down?  It's called a mirror - check one out sometime.

I know I know - your kids played PPE and Esmark, as told here ad nauseam about a hundred times on this forum.  

When everyone else around you is bored to death from your on and on insightful takes and knowledge, how long before they just run for the hills and when they do, do you seek out the nearest wall and bore it to death?  Good god man, get a life.

And as a PSA for those that really want to seek the expertise and wisdom of Danner and to help the many that are as bored of him as I am, simply DM him and spare us the headache of having to see his rants.  You can meet for coffee and he can tell you all about the glory days of hockey, when his kids played, what his position was at the local beer league and how many points he averaged per game.  Riveting, can't miss stuff I am sure.

Edited February 14, 2023 by fafa fohi

[Danner27]

@fafa fohi
Don’t you have to worry about your kids shaha youth team falling a part with all the printscape rumors & esmark ? We are talking about College club hockey here, hence the topic title.

[nemesis8679]

32 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Angry much?  And you are telling others to calm down?  It's called a mirror - check one out sometime.

I know I know - your kids played PPE and Esmark, as told here ad nauseam about a hundred times on this forum.  

When everyone else around you is bored to death from your on and on insightful takes and knowledge, how long before they just run for the hills and when they do, do you seek out the nearest wall and bore it to death?  Good god man, get a life.

And as a PSA for those that really want to seek the expertise and wisdom of Danner and to help the many that are as bored of him as I am, simply DM him and spare us the headache of having to see his rants.  You can meet for coffee and he can tell you all about the glory days of hockey, when his kids played, what his position was at the local beer league and how many points he averaged per game.  Riveting, can't miss stuff I am sure.

I don't know, I appreciate Danner's insights. As well as yours. 

[fafa fohi]

5 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

@fafa fohi
Don’t you have to worry about your kids shaha youth team falling a part with all the printscape rumors & esmark ? We are talking about College club hockey here, hence the topic title.

Sorry bro, you are wrong so much of the time it's laughable.  I have no skin in the SHAHA game nor did I mention it here, yet you said so yourself this is a thread about "College club hockey" yet you bring up Printscape, SHAHA and the team falling apart on said "College club hockey" thread.  

The self-own here is priceless.

[Danner27]

Just now, fafa fohi said:

Sorry bro, you are wrong so much of the time it's laughable.  I have no skin in the SHAHA game nor did I mention it here, yet you said so yourself this is a thread about "College club hockey" yet you bring up Printscape, SHAHA and the team falling apart on said "College club hockey" thread.  

The self-own here is priceless.

Your always championing shaha’s “aaa” teams - the assumption is your kid plays there or you are involved. If I’m wrong I’m wrong. 
 

I only brought up shaha & youth hockey in this thread because you came storming on in trying to derail the topic,  adding backhanded insults.
 

you are free not to read or comment on this topic.  

[RJUSHL]

20 hours ago, Law said:

Just when I thought I was out; Danner, you pulled me back in. A few facts regarding your comments about ACHA and Pitt.

1. PITT won the CHMA regular season championship 4 out of the last 5 years Pitt was in the league. After the 1st 2 years, the league decided to give the automatic bid to the playoff winner rather than the regular season champ. The handwriting was on the wall as Pitt went 26-1-1 in league the last 2 years.

2. ACHACHA M1-semantics, why does it bother you?

3. There is not a player on the Pitt roster that came to Pitt just to play hockey. They came to get a good education AND play hockey. 

4. The cost to play hockey at Pitt this year was completely funded by sponsors and fundraising. Includes jerseys, shells, gloves, helmets, equipment bags, warm up windsuits, travel, hotels and food on the road, sticks, etc.

5. If a game in the ACHA is tied after regulation it goes into the computer as a tie. Has always been that way

6. There is no political or parental interference at Pitt.

Well there Danner, I fixed it for you. Know the facts b4 you criticize  a program that people have worked hard to build. You can fact check any of this.

Good perspective. Doesn’t seem like a bad situation for the kids. They’re getting a good education, and much of the cost of their hockey is comped. For most kids, it doesn’t get any better than that.

I don’t know too much about ACHA hockey, but the situation at Pitt seems like an awesome setup for local kids with good grades that couldn’t quite make it work in Tier 2 juniors or had no desire to play junior hockey. Not exactly sure who feeds these programs.

I don’t understand the hate. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by RJUSHL

[fafa fohi]

3 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

I don't know, I appreciate Danner's insights. As well as yours. 

What you will get from me is insight on my own experiences while not claiming I know everything based on those experiences.  Circumstances are different for each kid - I had two that played at a high level and each was a completely different set of circumstances, and it is up to them to find the best fit based on their needs and not from some loudmouth know-it-all on a hockey forum claiming to know everything about everything.

 

28 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Your always championing shaha’s “aaa” teams - the assumption is your kid plays there or you are involved. If I’m wrong I’m wrong. 
 

I only brought up shaha & youth hockey in this thread because you came storming on in trying to derail the topic,  adding backhanded insults.
 

you are free not to read or comment on this topic.  

Again, your assumptions are incorrect and your reading comprehension needs work - I never mentioned SHAHA until after you brought it up so for you to say I am always championing that team is a load of crap.  You are moving the goalposts and combining comments from other threads onto this one to try and make some kind of point.  Thud. 

Nor do I have a kid that plays there nor am I involved there, but I find it interesting to see teams of all local kids beat a team that recruits heavily out of state that is labeled "elite."

Backhanded insults?  I cannot speak for @Law but he may like a word, as all you did was hurl insults and opinions not based on fact towards him.

Adios.