Top 5 PIHL Rankings

[Ihearthockey]

Looks to me like Class A divisions are geographic as well.  Maybe it's a little bit of both...competitiveness and geography. 

[aaaahockey]

I'm still shocked about Seneca and USC (in different ways). A little surprised about Lebo as well.  We will see if it holds through the rest of the season. 

[Pa Hockey]

8 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

Looks to me like Class A divisions are geographic as well.  Maybe it's a little bit of both...competitiveness and geography. 

Not Really for Richland and Westmont in Johnstown and Freeport 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

41 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

Looks to me like Class A divisions are geographic as well.  Maybe it's a little bit of both...competitiveness and geography. 

It isn’t geographic. Moon, Chartiers Valley and Avonworth are in a different section that Montour, West Allegheny and Quaker Valley when those districts actually border each other. The amount of travel added to all these teams is tremendous. And in my opinion absolutely stupid. Why divide teams that are natural rivalries? I think whoever was in charge of making the divisions did a real disservice to all those teams and their fans. 

[Ihearthockey]

Dunno  Richland and Westmont.  Erie and Meadville.  The RMU teams together.  Seems some assemblance of geography.  But also some head scratchers like all the Baierl teams not being together.  

[sample39]

1 hour ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

It isn’t geographic. Moon, Chartiers Valley and Avonworth are in a different section that Montour, West Allegheny and Quaker Valley when those districts actually border each other. The amount of travel added to all these teams is tremendous. And in my opinion absolutely stupid. Why divide teams that are natural rivalries? I think whoever was in charge of making the divisions did a real disservice to all those teams and their fans. 

I concur.  These 6 teams should be in the same section based on history and geography.  This is what happens though when you have an A division with 24 teams.  More than double the size of AAA and AA.  

I believe one of the initial goals of the "3 Year Formula" before it was abandoned was to promote and reward teams for moving up a classification.  What instead has happened are teams are fighting to get moved down, or refusing to get moved up. Hence the logjam we now have in A. 

Realignment at this point is necessary, whether programs like it or not. 

[nemesis8679]

9 hours ago, sample39 said:

I concur.  These 6 teams should be in the same section based on history and geography.  This is what happens though when you have an A division with 24 teams.  More than double the size of AAA and AA.  

I believe one of the initial goals of the "3 Year Formula" before it was abandoned was to promote and reward teams for moving up a classification.  What instead has happened are teams are fighting to get moved down, or refusing to get moved up. Hence the logjam we now have in A. 

Realignment at this point is necessary, whether programs like it or not. 

Reward teams for moving up, how? By moving them into a higher division when they graduate their best players and don't replace them? I wouldn't want that "reward", either. 

[Rewster]

1 hour ago, nemesis8679 said:

Reward teams for moving up, how? By moving them into a higher division when they graduate their best players and don't replace them? I wouldn't want that "reward", either. 

It’s not based upon a year-to-year promotion/relegation. It should be (i.e. the spirit of the classification) to take into consideration the overall enrollment, boys high school enrollment, high school hockey enrollment, factored in to the most recent trend of the past 5 to 10 seasons and each school’s regular season and playoff finish. 
 

I hate to beat a dead horse…but there has to be special qualifiers based upon if it’s a private, or parochial school that can “recruit” from a greater region. It’s one thing coming from Philadelphia where the private schools have their own classification…Pittsburgh simply does not have that type of population or enrollment to support a small/select number of schools.

[sample39]

6 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Reward teams for moving up, how? By moving them into a higher division when they graduate their best players and don't replace them? I wouldn't want that "reward", either. 

Better game times, more press coverage, etc.  There's likely no evidence that was EVER the case, but I was told that by someone who worked for PIHL a few years ago.  

And yes, not taking into account graduating classes from the year before is an issue (I've been there, believe me).  This is where school enrollment, program enrollment, and 5-10 year history should be taken into consideration like Rewster said above.  It would provide a good idea of how quickly a program can bounce back.  

The attitude of "there is no benefit of moving up, ever" though is why the classifications are sized the way they are currently. 

[Pa Hockey]

2 minutes ago, sample39 said:

Better game times, more press coverage, etc.  There's likely no evidence that was EVER the case, but I was told that by someone who worked for PIHL a few years ago.  

And yes, not taking into account graduating classes from the year before is an issue (I've been there, believe me).  This is where school enrollment, program enrollment, and 5-10 year history should be taken into consideration like Rewster said above.  It would provide a good idea of how quickly a program can bounce back.  

The attitude of "there is no benefit of moving up, ever" though is why the classifications are sized the way they are currently. 

First of all, the PIHL is a shade of what it started out to be as over 20 years when it started in 1999 it has lost nearly 40 organizations from the 90 or so it started with. The Vision was to have geographic rivalries at AAA, AA, and A and have pure schools to compete for the Penguins Cup and State Championship. Two conferences Northeast and Southwest, Geographically divided to control travel and costs.  I didn't happen and schools got priced out for a multitude of reasons and programs started vanishing. 

The competitive formula has its limits and does not take into account development at JV and Middle School and program numbers. And of course losing heavy Senior Classes. The last three years record has little of nothing do with the current roster (ie Kiski). 

The goal of the PIHL should be to have 16 at AAA, 16 at AA and 16 at A and geographically divide schools for a 22 Game Regular season schedule and have 8 schools in the playoffs to have kittle prestige to the Penguins Cup. 

Better Times YES Press Coverage YES Attractive to  Travel Players YES 

Kudos to Ten Band doing a great job covering HS Hockey and more to come 

 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

4 minutes ago, Pa Hockey said:

The competitive formula has its limits and does not take into account development at JV and Middle School and program numbers. And of course losing heavy Senior Classes. The last three years record has little of nothing do with the current roster (ie Kiski). 

Very good points. PIHL should definitely take the number of players that are in a program into account. And also losing a heavy senior class. Kiski is suffering because of it but they were not moved up in class. North Hills on the other hand was moved up after losing a number of seniors and their top two point scorers. I have seen it multiple times and it hurts teams tremendously when they lose so much talent and are moved up, or in some cases not allowed to move down after losing lots of players and top scorers. It is a real shame for kids that go through seasons where they win very few games or worse none at all. It happened to both my sons. One moved up after losing 8 seniors including the top two scorers and their only goalie  and they had a five win season. Got blown out a lot of games early because they had no goalie other than a kid that strapped them on the year before. And the other son’s team also lost 8 seniors and their top three scorers  and wasn’t allowed to move back down. Also struggled mightily and only won 4 or 5 games, and those wins were against teams that were in a similar position having lost a ton of seniors as well. There is so much information available to PIHL about what level these kids play at on amateur teams that it should be used as well. For instance this season, Shaler moved down in classification after adding two players from AAA teams that didn’t play for them last year. And they are not freshmen or sophomores. And now they are better than they were last year and still got moved down. Where as other teams lose a ton of talent and have been moved up. I think the system is very flawed. 

[Pa Hockey]

11 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Very good points. PIHL should definitely take the number of players that are in a program into account. And also losing a heavy senior class. Kiski is suffering because of it but they were not moved up in class. North Hills on the other hand was moved up after losing a number of seniors and their top two point scorers. I have seen it multiple times and it hurts teams tremendously when they lose so much talent and are moved up, or in some cases not allowed to move down after losing lots of players and top scorers. It is a real shame for kids that go through seasons where they win very few games or worse none at all. It happened to both my sons. One moved up after losing 8 seniors including the top two scorers and their only goalie  and they had a five win season. Got blown out a lot of games early because they had no goalie other than a kid that strapped them on the year before. And the other son’s team also lost 8 seniors and their top three scorers  and wasn’t allowed to move back down. Also struggled mightily and only won 4 or 5 games, and those wins were against teams that were in a similar position having lost a ton of seniors as well. There is so much information available to PIHL about what level these kids play at on amateur teams that it should be used as well. For instance this season, Shaler moved down in classification after adding two players from AAA teams that didn’t play for them last year. And they are not freshmen or sophomores. And now they are better than they were last year and still got moved down. Where as other teams lose a ton of talent and have been moved up. I think the system is very flawed. 

Mars Butler and Shaler all have JV Teams and should be in AA

[fafa fohi]

37 minutes ago, Pa Hockey said:

Mars Butler and Shaler all have JV Teams and should be in AA

For the record, Butler's record over the past three seasons is 9-47.  Mars 17-39.  So there's that.

[Pa Hockey]

15 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

For the record, Butler's record over the past three seasons is 9-47.  Mars 17-39.  So there's that.

So what ? They go through coaches like toilet paper and mismanage their programs and get put in Class A ? These are some big schools with lots of players in the district and plenty of rinks to get their talent. Norwin and Fox Chapel are two more n this category  

[fafa fohi]

6 minutes ago, Pa Hockey said:

So what ? They go through coaches like toilet paper and mismanage their programs and get put in Class A ? These are some big schools with lots of players in the district and plenty of rinks to get their talent. Norwin and Fox Chapel are two more n this category  

Yeah so what - I would have loved to get my ass kicked as a high school kid and go 9-47.  Makes total sense Mr. PA Hockey.  🤡

Since you are super genius maybe you should step in and show those schools how to run a program.  Based on your computer and web skills I am sure you would have them turned around in no time.

Edited October 31, 2023 by fafa fohi

[Pa Hockey]

8 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Yeah so what - I would have loved to get my ass kicked as a high school kid and go 9-47.  Makes total sense Mr. PA Hockey.  🤡

Since you are super genius maybe you should step in and show those schools how to run a program.  Based on your computer and web skills I am sure you would have them turned around in no time.

Been there ...........FR was 1-97-4 over four years when I began development in 2007-2015 and two Penguins Cups and three more finals later is solid AA Program.....still poke my nose in from time to time   

I have my hands full with plenty of hockey projects thank you and enjoy doing them !

Mars is on their way with kids money and Cody Black will do a great job 

Shaler is Shaler and will find a way to screw anything up but Myers has won a couple of States with Mars so good luck to him 

Butler is a huge school lots of kids and money and should be embarassed to be in A

[fafa fohi]

23 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

Been there ...........FR was 1-97-4 over four years when I began development in 2007-2015 and two Penguins Cups and three more finals later is solid AA Program.....still poke my nose in from time to time   

I have my hands full with plenty of hockey projects thank you and enjoy doing them !

Mars is on their way with kids money and Cody Black will do a great job 

Shaler is Shaler and will find a way to screw anything up but Myers has won a couple of States with Mars so good luck to him 

Butler is a huge school lots of kids and money and should be embarassed to be in A

lol

Since you are so connected with your finger on the western PA hockey pulse, ask Mars players if they are enjoying HS hockey more this year than last year or years prior.  I know many of them personally and that would be a hard "yes."  Butler is 3-3 at the A level this season and have already won more games this year than all of last year.  My guess is same story here - yes on all accounts..

Or ask your bud CB at Mars..........

Edited November 1, 2023 by fafa fohi

[Pa Hockey]

1 minute ago, fafa fohi said:

lol

Since you are so connected with your finger on the western PA hockey pulse, ask Mars players if they are enjoying HS hockey more this year than last year or years prior.  I know many of them personally and that would be a hard "yes."  Butler is 3-3 at the A level this season and have already won more games this year than all of last year.  My guess is same story here.

Or ask your bud CB at Mars..........

Mars will be back in AA soon they have talent and wouldn't surprise me if they are in the PC Mix.......Cody has changed the culture already and they graduated some problems from prior years which led to Steve Meyers demise.  

Butler is a work in progress ..............Shaler would not surprise me if they are in PC Mix Another Huge school with JV Players + Rinks 

[Icebucket]

Butler has certainly caused a lot of it's own problems with their recent string of coaches. Hopefully the new coach can help them move back in the right direction. It wasn't all that long ago that Butler was ble to hang at the AAA level.

[powderfinger]

5 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

...and they graduated some problems from prior years which led to Steve Meyers demise.  

my god, you literally have no f'in clue. He led to his own demise.

[nemesis8679]

8 minutes ago, powderfinger said:

my god, you literally have no f'in clue. He led to his own demise.

How so? Apparently he's not that bad if another school hired him. Shaler looks strong so far, I'd say he's doing good. 

Edited October 31, 2023 by nemesis8679

[Pa Hockey]

15 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

How so? Apparently he's not that bad if another school hired him. Shaler looks strong so far, I'd say he's doing good. 

Two Pennsylvania State Titles and 4 Penguins Cups on his resume isn't bad either 

[powderfinger]

4 minutes ago, Pa Hockey said:

Two Pennsylvania State Titles and 4 Penguins Cups on his resume isn't bad either 

LMAO, you imply by your statement "graduated problems" that he left due to his players being the issue.  He resigned (wink, wink) with 1-2 games left last season and it had ZERO to do with their record over the past couple years. The level of people acting like experts on this forum when they know next to nothing it truly hilarious.

[Pa Hockey]

40 minutes ago, powderfinger said:

LMAO, you imply by your statement "graduated problems" that he left due to his players being the issue.  He resigned (wink, wink) with 1-2 games left last season and it had ZERO to do with their record over the past couple years. The level of people acting like experts on this forum when they know next to nothing it truly hilarious.

Ok smart guy .....so I guess the whole Armstrong situation with the Lack of a decent Goaltender had nothing to do with it ?. I tried to soft peddle it but I guess I am way out of line ?

Steve Meyers is a good coach and the change of programs to Shaler seems to be working out and Mars seems to be heading in the right direction under Cody Black as well.  

Edited November 1, 2023 by Pa Hockey

[powderfinger]

1 hour ago, Pa Hockey said:

so I guess the whole Armstrong situation with the Lack of a decent Goaltender had nothing to do with it ?

Absolutely correct, nothing at all to do with why he left. Those situations were out of his control and everyone knew that. Not going to get in a pissing match with you, you don't know anything about the situation, clearly.