What is happening at ALPHA ICE?

[HereForTheChirps]

Maybe it is just me, but it seems like some of the local teams are a bit more open to playing each other this season across all age groups.  Again, could be just my perception.

[hockeyisgreat]

48 minutes ago, HereForTheChirps said:

Maybe it is just me, but it seems like some of the local teams are a bit more open to playing each other this season across all age groups.  Again, could be just my perception.

Welcome to the board!  I hope you are right!  It's silly for these teams not to play each other!  Could save a whole lot of travel costs. But I do understand that they don't want to chance getting beat by what they consider a lesser team.  After all especially in the Faux AAA they are all fighting for the same $$$$ from the crazy parents!

[fafa fohi]

11 hours ago, Rewster said:

The PAHL could close the gap and seriously compete with the best Tier 2 18U AA leagues…if they evolve just a little and promote their league as a AA developmental league. Instead, the PAHL have apparently built an iron curtain around accessing any information about the member teams and players. You can find the team names and maybe the players names. But that’s where it ends. They keep any and all statistical information zipped up tight. It’s reminiscent of the Soviet Union during the Cold War. IMO, it’s myopic and has it’s whole foundation based on fear-laden principles. I fear that if it doesn’t adapt and keep up with the times…the outside influencers promising greener pastures might entice some people.

This^^^^ 100%, especially for the dinosaurs within PAHL that are wondering why the league has been on a steady downfall for years, while other similar Tier 2 leagues actually promote their players, have all-star games, post stats and are flourishing.  

Below is an example of what the CSDHL does for their players.......and what PAHL does for theirs.

Edited February 8 by fafa fohi

[Rewster]

11 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

This^^^^ 100%, especially for the dinosaurs within PAHL that are wondering why the league has been on a steady downfall for years, while other similar Tier 2 leagues actually promote their players, have all-star games, post stats and are flourishing.  

Below is an example of what the CSDHL does for their players.......and what PAHL does for theirs.

Wait, whaa?!? Where can one find all of this wonderful information? Now, if I am not mistaken…the Central States Developmental League is slightly larger than our local 18U AA league. They have 14 members comprising their league at this level; and the PAHL just has 8. It seems to me that it would be much more difficult to conduct accurate statistics tracking for each team—especially their players—during the season when the league is almost 2X the size of PAHL. The CSDHL appears to have minimal no difficulty with accurate accounting throughout the season.
 

The CSDHL is thee model of what an American Tier 2 AA league should look like. They are based around Chicago—which is not exactly in anyones top 3 regions for hockey development in the States—as Minnesota, New England, and Michigan are the usual suspects. Now, we have the trend of grouping a bunch of random teams around the country under one umbrella; slapping a them with a logo on their uniforms; and saying they are a mega-league consisting of 30+ teams. Think AHF, NAPHL Showcase, even BEAST has some Tier 2 teams in their 35-team league.

The CSDHL is solid. They own the top 5-10 positions in the rankings. They ain’t goin’ nowhere. If you go down slightly on the league rankings…you’ll see that the PAHL is the second best, full-season league in America. The Minnesota Tier 2 league is basically a late summer/early fall league that plays a short season schedule due to the fact that Minnesota High School Hockey is forever king.

My point is that if the high-end regional 18U AA leagues (PAHL included) want to remain as major players in Tier 2 national landscape…then they have to be proactive in their approach to their league’s growth and stability. Not do the opposite, and react to fear. It’s been pretty clear that there is an outside presence that is only looking to grow. All I’m saying is that I don’t see the CSDHL as being ripe for the picking.

[Rewster]

[dazedandconfused]

So the much maligned PAHL has 8 teams with 4 of them in the top 50 whilst the much hyped AHF has 31 teams with 8 in the top 50?

Huh? I never made the connection.

Yet, many on here laud the idea of traveling to the Jersey swamps for "better competition"

[HereForTheChirps]

7 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

So the much maligned PAHL has 8 teams with 4 of them in the top 50 whilst the much hyped AHF has 31 teams with 8 in the top 50?

Huh? I never made the connection.

Yet, many on here laud the idea of traveling to the Jersey swamps for "better competition"

Don't forget the ability for the scouts to see how many goals Johnny scored.

[forbin]

https://www.scirhockey.org/february-news/
 

[LGP13]

1 hour ago, forbin said:

https://www.scirhockey.org/february-news/
 

Weird, I couldn't find anywhere on their press release where it says SCIR is going from non-profit to for profit Vengeance.

So, 1 Logo, no other (PAHL) organizations to split ice time with, assuming increased fees. What are the positives of this move? I understand SCIR probably had to do it or they wouldn't have a place to play for their teams, but from the outside looking in, it looks like a dirty move by Vengeance to make more money with no upside for the teams forced to rebrand?

[Icebucket]

9 minutes ago, LGP13 said:

Weird, I couldn't find anywhere on their press release where it says SCIR is going from non-profit to for profit Vengeance.

So, 1 Logo, no other (PAHL) organizations to split ice time with, assuming increased fees. What are the positives of this move? I understand SCIR probably had to do it or they wouldn't have a place to play for their teams, but from the outside looking in, it looks like a dirty move by Vengeance to make more money with no upside for the teams forced to rebrand?

It's the same move Alpha has pulled many times.

Rebrand as vengeance or you can't get ice

Use our officials or you can't get ice

Buy our team supplies or you can't get ice

None of these have any benefit to the kids. Only to Alphas pockets

Edited February 15 by Icebucket

[HereForTheChirps]

15 minutes ago, LGP13 said:

Weird, I couldn't find anywhere on their press release where it says SCIR is going from non-profit to for profit Vengeance.

So, 1 Logo, no other (PAHL) organizations to split ice time with, assuming increased fees. What are the positives of this move? I understand SCIR probably had to do it or they wouldn't have a place to play for their teams, but from the outside looking in, it looks like a dirty move by Vengeance to make more money with no upside for the teams forced to rebrand?

In a message to the SCIR members, it was clarified that the non-profit organization that currently runs SCIR will remain intact and will just have a new DBA. You hit the nail on the head, no other PAHL organizations at the rink to compete with.  That is the advantage.

 

Disclosure: I have a player at SCIR

 

Edited February 15 by HereForTheChirps
Disclosure

[Saucey]

Never been a fan of SCIR teams. But they have been very successful, and they have to give up everything to become an organization that has had....a few successes. Bleh.

[LGP13]

22 minutes ago, HereForTheChirps said:

In a message to the SCIR members, it was clarified that the non-profit organization that currently runs SCIR will remain intact and will just have a new DBA. You hit the nail on the head, no other PAHL organizations at the rink to compete with.  That is the advantage.

 

Disclosure: I have a player at SCIR

 

I'm glad to hear they said things will remain intact for the SCIR teams. I'm hoping that things stay unchanged for the teams and your fees don't increase.

[YardSale]

5 minutes ago, LGP13 said:

I'm glad to hear they said things will remain intact for the SCIR teams. I'm hoping that things stay unchanged for the teams and your fees don't increase.

Since blackbear moved in, I think a new bar has been set for ice cost locally.  

[LGP13]

2 minutes ago, YardSale said:

Since blackbear moved in, I think a new bar has been set for ice cost locally.  

I agree, but what ice costs and what organizations charge for season tuition are two different things. That was more what I was referring to with my comments.

[YardSale]

2 minutes ago, LGP13 said:

I agree, but what ice costs and what organizations charge for season tuition are two different things. That was more what I was referring to with my comments.

Yes, but closely tied.  I don't think there are many more significant costs other than the ice nut.

[Pucks11]

5 hours ago, LGP13 said:

Weird, I couldn't find anywhere on their press release where it says SCIR is going from non-profit to for profit Vengeance.

So, 1 Logo, no other (PAHL) organizations to split ice time with, assuming increased fees. What are the positives of this move? I understand SCIR probably had to do it or they wouldn't have a place to play for their teams, but from the outside looking in, it looks like a dirty move by Vengeance to make more money with no upside for the teams forced to rebrand?

The non profit will be a write-off for the good Dr. for all of his "donations" to the Vengeance AAA teams.

The positives are 1. You will get a coach/GM that can out drink any of the parents and just got off of his 2nd DUI. He will coach your kids while on house arrest and wearing his ankle monitor.

2. You get professional EX athletes as coaches that will teach the dads how to cheat on their wives when they go out of town.

3. You get the flashy locker rooms with the fake walls that you have to walk 1/8th of a mile and through another building to get to the rink.

4. You have the "state of the art gym" that only 6 kids at a time can use but that's okay because they have a shooting area smaller than the one in your basement and 1/20th of a basketball court.

You also get the front "lounge area" with the high top bar tables.

Can't forget the video room that doesn't hold the whole team so kids sit on the floor.

But you do get some cool swag and jerseys.

 

[PUCKCOVID19]

35 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

The non profit will be a write-off for the good Dr. for all of his "donations" to the Vengeance AAA teams.

The positives are 1. You will get a coach/GM that can out drink any of the parents and just got off of his 2nd DUI. He will coach your kids while on house arrest and wearing his ankle monitor.

2. You get professional EX athletes as coaches that will teach the dads how to cheat on their wives when they go out of town.

3. You get the flashy locker rooms with the fake walls that you have to walk 1/8th of a mile and through another building to get to the rink.

4. You have the "state of the art gym" that only 6 kids at a time can use but that's okay because they have a shooting area smaller than the one in your basement and 1/20th of a basketball court.

You also get the front "lounge area" with the high top bar tables.

Can't forget the video room that doesn't hold the whole team so kids sit on the floor.

But you do get some cool swag and jerseys.

 

all of that was built for the jr that folded so it was handed down to the faux aaa teams.... nothing special 

[Icebucket]

37 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

The non profit will be a write-off for the good Dr. for all of his "donations" to the Vengeance AAA teams.

The positives are 1. You will get a coach/GM that can out drink any of the parents and just got off of his 2nd DUI. He will coach your kids while on house arrest and wearing his ankle monitor.

2. You get professional EX athletes as coaches that will teach the dads how to cheat on their wives when they go out of town.

3. You get the flashy locker rooms with the fake walls that you have to walk 1/8th of a mile and through another building to get to the rink.

4. You have the "state of the art gym" that only 6 kids at a time can use but that's okay because they have a shooting area smaller than the one in your basement and 1/20th of a basketball court.

You also get the front "lounge area" with the high top bar tables.

Can't forget the video room that doesn't hold the whole team so kids sit on the floor.

But you do get some cool swag and jerseys.

 

Crazy thing is, while this seems like it might just be a ridiculous bitter post.  It's spot on.

[stickboy]

I don’t think the new facilities were built for the junior team. It was gone well before that project started. It was for the youth program, and it is a nice use of otherwise dead space.  Knock it all you want, but the locker rooms/training/vid room/etc are  10x better than what any area program has to offer other than Pens.  You only get that with cooperation between the program and rink ownership.  Will never have that at any other rink in Pittsburgh.  And don’t say Black Bear can do it, because we know they won’t.  Just look around at their rinks across the country.  

I think this Ven/SCIR consolidation is a good move to protect the programs and keep them sustainible.  The most result evolution of Vengeance was a start up to support a small core of quality players.  To their credit the teams were successful and people took notice. Naturally it grew in size, but ultimately they weren’t prepared to support the growth and the quality has gone down the last few years. A plan with oversight, standard operations for all teams, and responsible people directing will do it a lot of good. Wish them luck. 

[nemesis8679]

So, does this Dr. own the Vengeance and the rink? Or how does he have leverage to make the top ice-buyer join Vengeance or not get ice at all?

[Pucks11]

5 hours ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

all of that was built for the jr that folded so it was handed down to the faux aaa teams.... nothing special 

All of that was built for their AAA teams mainly the 08/09 crew that started their youth organization. It was also built to lure new kids/families with shiny new toys.

That Jr team is the red headed step child of that place.

[Pucks11]

4 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

So, does this Dr. own the Vengeance and the rink? Or how does he have leverage to make the top ice-buyer join Vengeance or not get ice at all?

Yes, the Dr. owns the rink. It is listed under an LLC that leads to his home address.

[James Gatz]

It is interesting that they are going all-in on a single branded youth amateur hockey organization.  Other programs are creeping in this direction but haven't gone all-in.  The Yetis/Icemen are an example.  PHA/Frozen Pond is expanding the Icemen brand to include Independent birth year Squirt teams.  They will keep the Yetis brand for PAHL teams.  As much as those organizations are linked when convenient, tryouts and registration will stay separate, so presumably you will have to pay two tryout fees if you don't make the Icemen but want to tryout later for the Yetis.  

[zam]

I'd imagine the "negotiated merger" between "Alpha/Vengeance" and Steel City Renegades went something like this....

Hey we have been paying SCIR to roster our teams for several years now, we tried to get the Aviators to do it but they wouldn't. And you might notice they are no longer here.  So we can either rename your organization Vengeance, allow your board to "run things" and renew your ice contract OR you can go over to SSA and see if they will sell you a few hours of ice.  If you don't like that deal I'm sure one of the other displaced organizations like the North Hills Vipers would.