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nemesis8679

Pros and Cons of local youth hockey programs

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You original query mentioned North Pittsburgh, I just glanced at their webpage and last year’s travel handbook is posted on there.  Would give a glimpse into the organization. Did not look at others.

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Just now, BACKCHECKING said:

Correct me if i am wrong,

I was told the Renegades have a AA10s BY team playing a AA 09BY schedule?

I don't know for sure, but it is possible to have two BY teams in the same division because again, PAHL is only set up for BY at Bantam. The younger team is at risk of being misplaced...they see oh, this team has a bunch of AAs and sticks the younger AA in AA, where they get slaughtered by all the other older BY teams. I think a few organizations caught it this year and got the younger BY team moved down into A Major Black.

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4 hours ago, BACKCHECKING said:

Correct me if i am wrong,

I was told the Renegades have a AA10s BY team playing a AA 09BY schedule?

Renegades allow the 2010 Vengeance birth year team to play AA pahl as renegades. They do not have a different AA team and the 2009 Vengeance do not play PAHL. 

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53 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

Renegades allow the 2010 Vengeance birth year team to play AA pahl as renegades. They do not have a different AA team and the 2009 Vengeance do not play PAHL.

Hence why the Vengeance are a faux-AAA organization.

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13 hours ago, RegDunlop7 said:

Hence why the Vengeance are a faux-AAA organization.

The 09BY Vengeance are the 2nd ranked 09 team in PA and are 22nd nationally.  Maybe you can make the claim that organizationally they are "faux-AAA", but that specific team is doing more than enough to be considered legitimate.  

Before somebody says something, yes, I'm aware these kids are only 10 years old, but that is where the conversation on the board went.

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11 minutes ago, Snap Shot said:

The 09BY Vengeance are the 2nd ranked 09 team in PA and are 22nd nationally.  Maybe you can make the claim that organizationally they are "faux-AAA", but that specific team is doing more than enough to be considered legitimate.

#3 and #6 in the '09 rankings are AA teams.

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20 hours ago, Saucey said:

I don't know for sure, but it is possible to have two BY teams in the same division because again, PAHL is only set up for BY at Bantam. The younger team is at risk of being misplaced...they see oh, this team has a bunch of AAs and sticks the younger AA in AA, where they get slaughtered by all the other older BY teams. I think a few organizations caught it this year and got the younger BY team moved down into A Major Black.

To your point, last year SCIR had two BY teams in AA U12.  The second team should have been an A Major Black team but I assume egos with parents and coaches got in the way of reason and they were placed in AA.........they went 8-28-3.

https://myhockeyrankings.com/team_info.php?y=2018&t=16939

 

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14 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

To your point, last year SCIR had two BY teams in AA U12.  The second team should have been an A Major Black team but I assume egos with parents and coaches got in the way of reason and they were placed in AA.........they went 8-28-3.

https://myhockeyrankings.com/team_info.php?y=2018&t=16939

 

And now they can barely field a A major black team.  There's quite the gap between their PW independent teams (07SCIR and 08 Veng) and their top PAHL team. 

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On 1/29/2020 at 2:47 PM, BACKCHECKING said:

Correct me if i am wrong,

I was told the Renegades have a AA10s BY team playing a AA 09BY schedule?

Last year their 09 Vengeance did well in AA division but this year the 2010 Vengeance is really struggling in the 2009 AA division 

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22 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Fafa, you have a serious issue with SCIR and Alpha. What gives? Shouldn't your major concern be with the Iowa caucus today?

And I quote......

To your point, last year SCIR had two BY teams in AA U12.  The second team should have been an A Major Black team but I assume egos with parents and coaches got in the way of reason and they were placed in AA.........they went 8-28-3.

https://myhockeyrankings.com/team_info.php?y=2018&t=16939

What part of this post is untrue?  Or are you one of the parents or coaches that was cool with an 8-28-3 record because of the extra A on your lapel?  Facts suck sometimes but they remain facts.

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On 2/3/2020 at 8:47 AM, bender05 said:

Last year their 09 Vengeance did well in AA division but this year the 2010 Vengeance is really struggling in the 2009 AA division 

That's my point, that rising year by shouldn't be playing AA except in Bantam, where it is specifically set up to do so and again I feel that is debatable since the small organizations can't always field a pure by team. Again, PAHL is not set up for by. You are going to do it, you have to try for A Major Black. They get beat up on all year by the older kids, you don't keep them the next year. But the organizations feel compelled to offer them because that is what parents want.  My boys have gained a lot playing on mixed by teams over the years, there is something to be said from learning from your peers and having an older player or two pushing you.

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Saucey is right, especially at such a young age, it is the parents who are asking for the AA designation and it is very hard for smaller organizations to field a pure BY team because the numbers are not there to have enough skilled players at a given age. 

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On 2/3/2020 at 9:37 AM, fafa fohi said:

And I quote......

To your point, last year SCIR had two BY teams in AA U12.  The second team should have been an A Major Black team but I assume egos with parents and coaches got in the way of reason and they were placed in AA.........they went 8-28-3.

https://myhockeyrankings.com/team_info.php?y=2018&t=16939

What part of this post is untrue?  Or are you one of the parents or coaches that was cool with an 8-28-3 record because of the extra A on your lapel?  Facts suck sometimes but they remain facts.

 You statement was more than facts.  It included an assumption that you made.  

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On 1/30/2020 at 10:59 AM, fafa fohi said:

To your point, last year SCIR had two BY teams in AA U12.  The second team should have been an A Major Black team but I assume egos with parents and coaches got in the way of reason and they were placed in AA.........they went 8-28-3.

https://myhockeyrankings.com/team_info.php?y=2018&t=16939

 

As a parent on that ill-fated 07 SCIR team, we had an over enthusiastic coach/dad who pushed for AA. I don’t think it was parent driven. It was my understanding we were placed in A major black and he petitioned to have us moved up to AA. I think we went 1-19 in AA. Not a fun year! 
 

Back to the original topic, we were really frustrated with how the SCIR board handled the team’s situation when said coach left in the middle of the season, especially for how much the fees are there. Until that point we were generally happy with SCIR (and our younger son still plays in their well-run ADM program).  
 

I think your experience with most local programs will depend a whole lot on the coaches (and to a lesser extent, parents) on the team. It’s only at “real” AAA where you will find consistent, professional coaching at *every* level.

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On 2/3/2020 at 9:37 AM, fafa fohi said:

What part of this post is untrue?

Where did I say something wasn't true. I stated an OPINION, which I believe we are all entitled to, that your history on here provides evidence that you have serious issues with both the SCIR and the Alpha Ice Complex. And that's your prerogative, Bobby Brown but shouldn't you be in Iowa helping them count votes?

Snowflake.jpg

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12 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Where did I say something wasn't true. I stated an OPINION, which I believe we are all entitled to, that your history on here provides evidence that you have serious issues with both the SCIR and the Alpha Ice Complex. And that's your prerogative, Bobby Brown but shouldn't you be in Iowa helping them count votes?

Snowflake.jpg

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZ

Wake me when you have something relevant to the topic to say.

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37 minutes ago, Blackice said:

As a parent on that ill-fated 07 SCIR team, we had an over enthusiastic coach/dad who pushed for AA. I don’t think it was parent driven. It was my understanding we were placed in A major black and he petitioned to have us moved up to AA. I think we went 1-19 in AA. Not a fun year! 
 

Back to the original topic, we were really frustrated with how the SCIR board handled the team’s situation when said coach left in the middle of the season, especially for how much the fees are there. Until that point we were generally happy with SCIR (and our younger son still plays in their well-run ADM program).  
 

I think your experience with most local programs will depend a whole lot on the coaches (and to a lesser extent, parents) on the team. It’s only at “real” AAA where you will find consistent, professional coaching at *every* level.

I am sorry for your boy's experience. That scenario happens all over, regardless of how the rising BY ended up in AA. (Coach, parents, PAHL.) I remember hearing another organization's coach berating his young team because they couldn't beat my kid's older team, since my kids' team was horrible, in his opinion. It was terrible to hear, wasn't their fault. A year when they are young sometimes makes a huge difference in skill, not to mention size differences. Beware the sale of the BY model. Pittsburgh's market is not Michigan or Canada. They have the numbers to put similar talent, same BY. It's growing, but until all the organizations can field similar talent in one BY, it's like banging your head against the wall to put those teams together, and if your organization did it, how many others managed? People who push for that, someone mentioned, you have to be a little leery of. Maybe because their kid wouldn't play in AA otherwise, so they know they can boot the older kid down who would have normally been on Team 2 mixed BY. 

Kids develop at different rates. 🤷‍♂️ Shocker, but some of the ten year olds your kid plays with now might get better than your kid at 12, and vice versa. There is nothing wrong with that, there are good hockey experiences around here at all levels, and it's a sport worth playing even if you are not AA or AAA or whatever. To assume kids should all stay together because all their Moms and Dads got it on that year may not help some of them develop in the long run.

You are right about the coaches and team make up. Some organizations do a better job of putting good coaches at all levels than others, but it sure is a tough job for an unpaid one.

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Here’s a con, stay away from PIA. Currently a swat team and shootings being shown on the news right now in new ken. cop killed 2 years ago there, junkies roaming the streets, lovely place.
 

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PIA has it's issues but it's not like the rink is in downtown New Ken. It's a New Ken zip code but it basically sits right on the border of Burrell.

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3 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

PIA has it's issues but it's not like the rink is in downtown New Ken. It's a New Ken zip code but it basically sits right on the border of Burrell.

its right there, have you ever been to that sheetz next to the rink after 8pm ? Drunks, junkies and criminals. Burrell - new Ken the ENTIRE area is ghetto. 

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