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  1. The truth of why my goalie son QUIT the 16 U AAA Predators team was because there were 2 kids smoking weed - at tournaments, in the locker room at practice, etc... one of the kids that were caught, quit after they were both suspended - the other was brought back even though the team took a vote and only 2 kids wanted the suspended problematic player brought back. The suspended player is well kown for his repeated disciplinary issues on the ice and the bench, in the locker room and repeated drug use. The coach made the decision to bring him back anyway and said if anyone doesn't like that decision, they can leave. My son chose to leave, the night that the player was brought back. He said his goodbyes, shook hands with his teammates , wished them well, and we left Ice Castle. The team captain also quit, for the same reasons. That’s correct - my son chose to quit. He wasn’t thrown off by the coach - he wasn’t pulled off by my wife or myself - he quit and we supported that decision 100%. We are proud of his decision. Some parents on the 16u AA TEAM were allegedly told that my son was thrown off of the team. That is 100% false. I want the record set straight. This is 100% factual - so much so that I am not anonymous. My name is Phil Isaly. My sons name is Ethan. We will never play for the Predators Organization again. You all can make up your own minds.
    18 points
  2. Wampa and PBsooks are one and the same. Both accounts are now banned. This user has repeatedly been warned to tone it down but they don't have any self control.
    10 points
  3. Of all the places...... they've been the tightest on restrictions and someone turned them in? So many people must have so little joy in their lives that this is how they find happiness? Such a sad state this country is in.
    9 points
  4. Hey Chief, I voted for Obama. I’m sorry that you cannot see the forest from the trees. I couldn’t either. Say what you want about Trump. The reality is he is an effective president, who can’t get out of his own way due to his ego. The Democratic Party though? Buddy, take a look at the cities being torched to the ground. Take a look at the crime rates in Dem run cities. Take a look at how fucking unhinged and wacky that party has become. You want Biden in the whitehouse sympathizing for all of the social misfits burning and looting cities? Wait until it shows up on your doorstep- you’ll change your tune very quickly. My advice to you is that you take a hard look at what is going on with “the Democrats”. Donald Trump, this virus, and the rioting/looting etc have exposed them for what they really are. The party of delusion. This isn’t Bill Clinton’s Democrats anymore Chief. This is AOC’s Democrats, aka the clown car. Furthermore, that party could give fuck all about you... you don’t fit their agenda. Wake up.
    9 points
  5. It’s odd but parents of local 04’s seem to be really out of touch, don’t understand the path’s and honestly just assume there is college hockey spots begging to be filled. Having a 99 and 02 I’ve never seen anything like it. Sure, we all as parents in the early days think “maybe my kid can do it” but around the age of 14 you become educated on the paths, how much work & dedication outside of hockey is needed, Class room, nutrition, gym, how much more specialized instruction is needed. Both my kids were fortunate enough through out the years to play for PPE and one of them played for both PPE and esmark. My best guess here, these 04 parents (outside of the ppe parents) probably have never seen high end youth players, I assume this because you look at team like Lebo (Pahl team for years) and the 04 preds (doesn’t appear any of them played tier 1 at ppe or esmark ever from what I’ve read here) these parents Just assume they are playing “aaa” so off to the show they go. It’s bizarre that this certain BY parents seem to be so far behind the curve. I know some 05 and 06 parents who already get it and understand things. My 99 was a talented dman, he had a legitimate chance to play in the ushl. When it came down to it, he did not have the dedication to keep pushing after 17 years old and that’s ok. He was selected in the ushl futures draft. Went to one REAL camp, came home and said “dad what’s the point there are so many players out there with my talent and even more - they won’t even end up playing d1 I’m ready to get on with my life next year and just goto college, Where does this lead even if I get into d1 ? Stuck playing at a school you are still paying for that I might not even want to goto” nothing there for me to argue, he was spot on. He saw the talent, knew he would have to work harder and for what, to play at a school when he is 20 that he might not even want to be at. Yes you parents reading this, the majority of NCAA hockey players are not on a scholarship, most are not even on half scholarships and you better have a 4.0 with a high sat score so you can get some non athletic money. I have my theories but can’t really explain why the 04 BY parents are this crazy and uneducated. Due to my kids birth years out in the open now, where they played and the ushl draft I’m sure many readers will figure out who I am. That might be a good thing 🙂 or maybe not 🙂 but I’ll leave all the readers with Ncaa scholarship dreams with this : we have a very close friend playing ncca college hockey at a major big 10 university (not some small school like rmu). This player made the USA hockey select camps every year, almost had a spot on the national team. Very talented high end player who also has the size. He only had to play one year in the USHL. He’s a junior this year, he’s considered one the starting 5 on the team, he’s only on a partial scholarship for hockey. His parents are paying 32k a year for him to goto this university that costs roughly 58k a year to live at and attended. In comparison his girlfriend at the same university is only paying 18k due to multiple academic scholarships, she plays no sports, Just an average (smart) college kid. They player I’m speaking about, after he’s done, he will be in the work force, he’s got ZERO interest from any pro team at any level in North America even though he’s a top player from a high level Ncaa program. Sorry to crush so many dreams with one post but this is the reality of college hockey.
    9 points
  6. The mythology of masks (and this "vaccine") is ridiculous. Our entire family got COVID back in January 2020. None of us got the Vaccine this year, nor do we plan to do so. However, the government is pushing this MYTH that you must get the prick even if you have had COVID. No thank you. I won't patronize anywhere that forces me to show proof of vax, when I already have the God Given antibodies in me. If you're that damn concerned about catching coof, don't go out in public. Masks AREN'T going to help unless you are practically wearing a mustard-gas preventing gas mask. So glad I no longer have kids in youth hockey. This is all BS.
    8 points
  7. Your only problem? Really, you're only problem? You have a problem with everything that isn't what YOU want it to be. I have a suggestion for you, stay home forever if you so desire, but that's not what 95% of us want to do.
    8 points
  8. Actually just found out about this forum today, this is Mitch from Pittsburgh Hockey Digest. Just wanted to thank you guys for the kind words... it’s rough hours some days but it’s great know there are people who appreciate it!
    8 points
  9. Can we please reserve talk about calling ANY U12 or below team a "powerhouse" until they at least reach U14 and checking comes into play?
    7 points
  10. Hello all, @forbin has stepped up and volunteered to be a moderator. Forbin has a good track record on the forum so I figured I'd kick the tires and see how it goes. Just don't let him know he's on double-secret probation as I evaluate his moderation skills. 😉 In the mean time feel free to thank him for stepping up to help the hockey community. PB
    7 points
  11. I'm dreaming of adult discussion...that doesn't involve name calling or COVID 19. I miss hockey....and slamming PPE. .and arguing whose squirt is going pro....
    7 points
  12. I contend that every kid I know is NOT happy about the restrictions. I contend that you should stop trying to speak for some supposed majority when you have no idea what anyone thinks or feels outside of your kids small realm. The issue that you seem to not understand is that these restrictions in no way make anything safer. Actually, quite the opposite. I have a son that plays cards at a small card shop on Saturdays. Being indoors, they have a 25 person max capacity. Let me tell you, if you put 25 people in this place, there would be a few body parts forced up asses to get them all to fit. But yet a 17,000 sq foot building with a 15-20 foot ceiling has the same capacity? It's arbitrary, asinine and has nothing to do with safety. It has nothing to do with staying home and fear or lack of fear or freedom fighting. it's a simple matter of once you've let 25 in a building for a game, WTF difference does another 25 make? NONE!! Players can be spread on the benches in creative ways to distance them, which is a HELL ton safer than the current recommendation of staying in the locker room for 30 minutes.
    7 points
  13. Think anyone would be offended if I show up for PittsburghHockeyDigest? I don’t want to take up a spot a parent could have but would like to get some quotes
    7 points
  14. It's very simple. WPA DOES NOT develop hockey players. They take the money. Play lots of games and leave a bunch of kids wanting. I go to a lot of games. The fundamentals that are lacking in our kids is obvious. They can skate and shoot with the best of any one. It's how they play the game that leaves them behind. Maybe instead of kids under the age of 16 playing 60 games and having 40+ on ice practices. They should have 100 practices and 30 games. The NCAA has that sort of schedule and it doesn't seem to hurt the development of their players.
    7 points
  15. Would you rather have sports, businesses and restaurants opened on a limited basis while wearing a mask when you go out, or have everything closed while not having to wear a mask at all......... Everyone has choices, and if I need to wear a mask when entering / exiting a restaurant or seeing an amateur hockey game, I am OK with it. Those same businesses mandate shoes and a shirt, no?
    7 points
  16. @Wampa1 has been issued a 1 week suspension and 2 point warning. This is a forum for solid interaction, and while we can tolerate negativity done in a constructive manner, we don't need 3 posts in a row like was done above that serve little purpose other than to hit the hornet's nest.
    7 points
  17. Congratulations to 2021 SCS Girls 14U - Bronze Medal 16U - Silver Medal 19U - Bronze Medal
    6 points
  18. These players are responsible for their actions. Parents fighting c'mon man build back better! MIDAM needs to change the format of the tournament. Once your eliminated no more games... Nothing to play for, nothing to lose!
    6 points
  19. This. People playing in these AAA teams will tell you that they are doing it because of the superior coaching, more ice time blah blah blah. What dropthepuck just said. But then when it becomes clear that their kid isn't going anywhere....their kid either quits hockey entirely or wanders back to AA. Totally doing it because they think their kid is going somewhere. Or they say they didn't want to crush their kid's dreams. Suddenly, when they return, it's ok 'just to play for fun.' Shoot, it was always ok to just play for fun. This scenario plays out over and over. Everyone wants to think their kid is special. Many kids will say when they are little that they want to play in the NFL or NHL. I never told my kid he couldn't go pro when he was ten expressing this. I never 'crushed his dreams' by telling him no directly. (A frequent complaint expressed on this board by the coaches expressing frustration when they can't talk a parent of a kid they are trying to recruit to their 'AAA' program.) But I also know the facts and didn't go chasing down these things. He didn't know about faux AAA teams. We just didn't go there with him. He missed out on nothing. And then when he hit high school he figured it out on his own. Summer leagues, etc when he would see some of these 'AAA' players. See the rankings. He has actually told us thank you for not getting caught up in that. He doesn't want to travel to Texas, etc to play these crazy tournaments. He isn't bitter thinking we stomped on his dreams. There is so much you have to have to make college or the NHL. Natural athlete. Work ethic and drive. Luck. Connections. Money. People whose kid never made a AA team in PAHL go on these AAA teams. That's just crazy to me. They just don't want to listen to people who may know something. 'Don't tell my kid he can't do it.' Ok, have fun. My kid can also go play club hockey somewhere if he wants while playing PAHL and school hockey. And we are amused by the return of all the players who left PAHL at peewee or whatever, tired of spending the money and time now that it is clear their kid is not going to be playing D1 or D3. So yeah, it wasn't about the coaching or dry land training or whatever we heard when they left. In our market, parents drive what is good for development. But most of them don't know squat about hockey or the makeup of hockey in our area. We have BY teams not because people who know hockey think this is a good way to develop players around here. We have it because someone sold it to parents not wanting to disappoint their kids. They sold it because they want their kid playing on a high level team. Or to hand pick players. Or to make mioney for themselves. Or because they think their kid is going D1 if they do this. And slowly, it became hard to attract people to your program if you don't offer it. Almost all the big programs offer a 'AAA' and BY option. Because parents demand it. When youth sports became all about elite options, adults screwed up sports for kids. Big time. The biggest loss to me is the kid who quits playing. He or she lost their love of the game, because playing was all tied up with making it. Or got burned out. Anything below that AAA option is not worth playing. Why? Sports are important. They teach important life lessons where the worst thing that can happen to you as you are learning these lessons is a lost game. Friendships that last a lifetime. Learn to compete. Work. Discipline. Good sportsmanship. How to fail. How to win. Tie it all up with being 'elite' and I think kids and the sport suffer. This sport is already so expensive. It keeps getting more expensive. The sacrifices asked from families are high. You drive people into this other level of hockey that requires even more money and time, on a false premise....that is good how? You connect success in sports to a scholarship or whatever, when that doesn't happen and the kid exits the sport entirely....you missed what is valuable about playing sports in the first place. I'm glad to see those kids return if they do. But boy, it would have been nice to continue playing with them all along. So when I hear...why do you care where I spend money and play...I care because the system as a whole suffers when adults overreach. My kid may have had better competition where he plays, without being told you can find that if you come play all over the US. (And not true when many of these teams lose A LOT.) High school hockey could be a higher level of compete. I don't think these 'AAA' programs help hockey in Western Pa. Those promises that coach made to you and your kid....they don't materialize.
    6 points
  20. After 6 months of searching, I've finally cracked the case! The hours of logging into Live Barn cameras across the country only to be blocked by cunning ice rink operators. Or worse yet watching video trying to determine what teams are actually on the ice. Looking for any clues...helmet stickers, practice socks, custom gloves. You made it so difficult with your nondescript jerseys. But here in this one little thread on this one little message board the truth of the 12 year old outlaws is revealed! You thought you could elude the Covid Police by only posting 2 out of 5 games played in the far off land of Florida? But we have been scouring the internet for you scofflaws! Examining the rating site, waiting for someone to break! We knew it was only a matter of time before some parent longing to brag about their 12 year olds success would post some scores! And those of you that thought you were so clever sneaking a second parent into games we are coming for you next.
    6 points
  21. I have been around for a long time and seen this conversation play out over and over. Mostly in rink lobbies and now on this message board. I have found it best to keep my mouth shut and let people experience the process and learn for themselves. Maybe I can share a couple things that will help with that process. 1. Non checking is not real hockey. Period. I can't tell you how many players I've seen that are top 5 AAA peewees and by 2nd year bantam are average AA players. Talking about a peewee team being top 5 is no different than talking about your kids roller hockey team being top 5. 2. There hasn't been a group of western PA kids being ranked top 5 in Bantam or Midget in a long time. Lets use the Pens u16 this year as an example. Really good team. 10 kids from PA, 3 from Canada, 3 from Illinois, 1 from Arizona, Indiana, Delaware, and Ohio. The top kids migrate to certain clubs for the exposure. New Jersey u16 has a similar situation. Its common amongst top 5 teams. So even if you are on one of these teams at peewee there's a 50/50 chance you wont be there when it matters. So u16 this year is 04's. Do you think the 04 parents that paid into that team since squirts and got cut when it mattered are still hanging out at the water cooler at work. No, they now realize they've made fools of themselves pounding their chests over the years about how great their kids were. Calm down a little and make sure your kid is having fun. That's all.
    6 points
  22. Commendable! 27 posts in a row not centered on COVID-19. By the way, Cranberry is just as drug infested as New Kensington, they just hide it better. Well except the time that one PPE kid got busted. In the rink. 😕
    6 points
  23. If you child wants to start playing hockey I would get him or her into an ADM program this season. No reason to do another learn to play session it just puts of his or her development a season. The reason I say this is that most ADM programs are 2 days a week and at the end of the day your child has to get on the ice to start developing. At this point, I don’t think you can go wrong with any of the 3 programs. Pick one that fits your schedule and has a spot for you. At the end of the season you can reevaluate the situation. The only thing that can hinder your player’s development is if you wind up in a situation where he or she isn’t having fun. And the Jamborees were fun for the kids. To the kids they seem like a big deal.
    6 points
  24. What started as a weak topic (Icemen - why? should really be “who cares?”) actually turned into a decent discussion. Now it’s devolved into basically insinuating that other posters are pedophiles and we have others liking that. You’re the ones who are sick minded.
    6 points
  25. ENOUGH with the COVID! There were games this weekend. Anyone want to talk hockey?
    6 points
  26. I know I have a call in with the PIHL this week, I hope to have some official answers. I do know that we are not going to be at as many games (PittsburghHockeyDigest) for obvious reasons, but are offering broadcasting again and pre-determined coverage. I know some of last years broadcasts weren’t very high quality and left a lot to be desired, but I’ve worked on fixing things in the off-season. I was learning as I went and it showed. Hopefully they translate to a better product.
    6 points
  27. Read today Allegheny county has had 354 deaths. 66 of those were outside of nursing homes. 1.2 million people in the county and 66 deaths outside of nursing homes but countless livelihoods destroyed because of a governor acting completely on his whim along with an un`elected health secretary. It didn't need to be this way. This devastation is a state issue. All states are not equal. Pa is being screwed by a true dictator.
    6 points
  28. Not that I want to get into the middle of this, but his point was that not everyone is currently voting by party line. You may be right, that may yet come. I'm tired of people voting strictly by party. Our two-system-you-suck-if-you -aren't -for-me attitude of our politicians and Facebook memes are not moving our country forward. Need to work together. That used to happen. Not gonna happen any time soon.
    6 points
  29. I am very real and all of your comments further validate why we are so happy at PPE. You all are just jealous your little Johnny’s can make a real hockey team and are stuck playing PAHL. Or should I say, not playing.
    6 points
  30. Hmm, I sense a Lil’ 66’er parent is bitter by not having games. I totally get it. How else can 7 year old Johnny get scouted? Maybe it’s time to uproot the family so he can chase HIS dream.......
    6 points
  31. Not a good look, the holier than thou. Not that I disagree that this isn't annoying, but it's common knowledge that there were elite teams playing at Alpha while we were shut down. They might not have been doing it under the Pens' banner, but I find it hard to believe that didn't get back to them. So I wouldn't be so superior. Angry, ok, but there are plenty of people rule avoiding, including within the Pens Elite program.
    6 points
  32. That's exactly the point. Viruses can kill people, bacterial infections can kill people. However, we don't shut down the world during flu season, we just deal with it and that's exactly what we should be doing now with this new virus.
    6 points
  33. I complied the list of western PA reps that have opposed this bill. The rest are all in Eastern PA and probably 8-10 are in Montgomery County alone. I hope this helps make it easier to reach out and contact these folks. A. DAVIS (D) DISTRICT 35 Allegheny County (412) 664-0035 DEASY (D) DISTRICT 27 Allegheny County (412) 928-9514 DERMODY (D) DISTRICT 33 Allegheny County, Westmoreland County (724) 274-4770 FRANKEL (D) DISTRICT 23 Allegheny County (412) 422-1774 GAINEY (D) DISTRICT 24 Allegheny County (412) 665-5502 INNAMORATO (D) DISTRICT 21 Allegheny County (412) 781-2750 LEE (D) DISTRICT 34 Allegheny County (412) 273-3400 LONGIETTI (D) DISTRICT 07 Mercer County (724) 981-4655 MATZIE (D) DISTRICT 16 Beaver County, Allegheny County (724) 266-7774 D. MILLER (D) DISTRICT 42 Allegheny County (412) 343-3870 RAVENSTAHL (D) DISTRICT 20 Allegheny County (412) 321-5523 SAINATO (D) DISTRICT 09 Lawrence County (724) 656-1112 WHEATLEY (D) DISTRICT 19 Allegheny County (412) 471-7760
    6 points
  34. You have never coached at the AA level let alone tier 1 or junior hockey. You don’t understand what it like being around kids that start to take the game serious. Stick to mites that are having fun.
    6 points
  35. 6 points
  36. That's your opinion along with the Governor and his Health Secretary. A health secretary who among other things moved her mother out of a nursing home at the very start of this mess while at the same time sent positive patients back into other homes such as the one in Beaver County. That facility is the SOLE reason Beaver county is still in the Red phase. That leaves a lot of room to question their plans as well as their motives You have your Fauci's with one opinion, people from Stanford with another and last night I saw another doctor who had his message removed from youtube just like may others have. His message was this, the schools and children weren't at risk and we closed them immediately. The senior care facilities were the highest risk and they took forever to be closed. If we left the schools open, there would have been a better chance for building herd immunity. The bottom line is this, you don't know. I don't know and I'm not sure anyone really does know. So, for two months we have listened to their "rules" and now it's time to get back to life if you're so inclined OR stay at home in fear of something that is the unknown and which the duration is also unknown. Just not the way this country is supposed to work.
    6 points
  37. PAHL Girls playoffs took place this weekend at Belmont Complex. Here are your champions for 2019-2020: Girls 12u - SHAHA Panthers Girls 14u - Arctic Foxes Girls 19u - North Pittsburgh Wildcats Congratulations to all!
    6 points
  38. And therein may lie the biggest problem with Pittsburgh youth hockey. What percentage of parents at PPE actually do believe that they are currently in some sort of minor league system that will lead them straight to the NHL Penguins. I'm not talking about the kids (although they probably have a better grasp of reality) I'm talking about the parents. I'm going to give my guess by age group. Little 66ers - 90-95% - I will follow your every instruction 10U - 85-90% - It costs how much? No problem, it will be worth every penny 12U - 80% - Wait, my little superstar isn't on the 1st line 14U - 70% - You're bringing in players from where 15U - 60% - But we've been playing here for 8 years 16U - 50% - I guess not everyone makes the grade 18U - <25% - Reality finally sets in and holy s*** there's no money left for college
    6 points
  39. Wow! What a great man you and your wife have raised. Not many players would have done that. RESPECT!
    6 points
  40. Eddie, I think removing body checking at 12U has amplified the parent paranoia, and in some areas hindered the kids development. I understand the thought process behind removing it 8 or so years ago, but respectfully disagree with it. It's better for players to learn and acclimate themselves to body-checking at a younger age, where both first and second year players are still relatively small. At bantam, the size discrepancy is much larger. You can have a first year player at 4'11 and 85lbs go up against a second year player who is 5'10 and 160lbs. That's the nature of bantam hockey. When you factor in the first year player having no experience with checking, specifically lacking good habits to properly protect themselves, then things can get dangerous. They should consider reintroducing body-checking back into 12U, however, I fear they're more likely to remove it from 14U.
    6 points
  41. @Wampa1 and @Hoomie Wampa, you are 9/10ths of the way to earning a ban. Stop being so aggressive towards other people on here. I have told you before, state your TAKE and move on. Your takes don't have to descend to the level of attacks on anyone who disagrees or counters you. Hoomie, back off on the repeated "LIAR" accusations. Not necessary to go there. A simple "I disagree because..." will suffice. If everyone can't take a deep breath before they post and stop bashing each other, I will lock this thread, and permanent bans may be forthcoming. It's getting tiring going through the same thing with a few posters over and over. TONE IT DOWN! You have been warned.
    6 points
  42. One of the best things that happened for my son was trying out for the Pens 2 years ago and not even making the 4th day. Lit a real fire under his tail. Last year he was offered Black and turned it down. He wants to make Gold and he has improved dramatically in the last 2 years. Not making the team he wanted with on-point constructive criticism (which we feel like we received) will drive the right kid to work hard. Did for my son. Hope it does for yours too...
    6 points
  43. And yet another crash and burn comment thread led by the notorious @Wampa1. Seems like you always seem to be the guy throwing the turd in the punchbowl. A meaningful and timely thread develops, then @Wampa1 inserts his genius takes by bad mouthing kids and organizations, name calling others throughout this and other threads, "outing idiots," nothing but negativity with no solutions. We are talking about kids here bro.
    6 points
  44. I hate to be the pessimistic a$$hole here but none of this will matter because nobody will show up for the games and the program wont get the continued funding it needs and will be shut down again. Everyone wants to be a keyboard warrior for the program but when it comes to actually supporting the teams and showing up to the games, that's too much of an inconvenience. Or they come back and the arena is packed every night and they win the NCAA championship and Disney makes a movie about it.
    5 points
  45. So..... telling people that a coach has a moral compass that is set at -360 degrees has no place here? If I'm a newbie looking at options, I would think that was important, wouldn't you?
    5 points
  46. In doing some research these talking points below have been circulating amongst a group of friends of mine. They should be included on any correspondence you send to your legislators regarding #2832. We are dealing with people that have zero hockey sense nor perspective on rink size, player interaction, etc. so some points are common sense to us but will help getting those not connected to the sport to understand the challenges we face. *An ice hockey rink is 200- by 85-feet: that's 17,000 square feet of space just in the playing surface, with the overall averaging 25,000 Square feet. Most facilities with two sheets of ice are over 65,000 square feet! *Under current restrictions in PA, NJ and DE, other more riskier sports are able to fully resume, in much smaller buildings. *50 people in a rink means 500 square feet per person. This is WAY more than restaurants, gyms, entertainment facilities, tattoo parlors, and more. This is also way more space per person than all other sports. *The National Federation of State High School Associations classifies ice hockey as "Moderate Risk" along with basketball, volleyball, soccer, field hockey, girls lacrosse, and 7-on-7 football. *Hockey players never share equipment, do not touch the puck, and there is no skin-to-skin contact. *Research from Eastern Michigan University shows that during a typical hockey game player-to-player close proximity is limited to 3 seconds. *Exempt Team Personnel and Game Officials from the overall number of people allowed in an ice rink at once. Keep emailing your legislators regardless of political party. There is also a Facebook group entitled “# Let Them Play In PA” with over 20,000 that have joined. Keep the pressure on!!
    5 points
  47. I would love to hear what each of their rationales are for opposing it. I'm sure they are mired in nothing more than political partisanship.
    5 points
  48. Shouldn't be game over. That's even more embarrassing. Just don't put it on the board. Or, something like if you go up 10 and you're the coach, don't be an asshole. Pretty simple.
    5 points
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