Jump to content

What do you think hockey in the Burgh would be like without PPE?


Recommended Posts

35 teams total in !6U PAHL last year.   9 were AA, 8 A Major Black and 11 A Major Gold.   7, A Minor  64 in 14U and only 7 were AA Major.  I would think at least 6 of those 7 would try to play 16UAA but who knows. Still comes down to competitive balance and if there are 4 teams way better than everyone else then I will understand 4 !6U AA teams.  Maybe they will have a 16U AA Minor for the 06BY teams.  I know there are quite a few.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

35 teams total in !6U PAHL last year.   9 were AA, 8 A Major Black and 11 A Major Gold.   7, A Minor  64 in 14U and only 7 were AA Major.  I would think at least 6 of those 7 would try to play 16UAA but who knows. Still comes down to competitive balance and if there are 4 teams way better than everyone else then I will understand 4 !6U AA teams.  Maybe they will have a 16U AA Minor for the 06BY teams.  I know there are quite a few.

16uAA last year had a fairly significant drop from top half to bottom. That's what people are complaining about regarding PAHL competition. Halt of a crap schedule at that level stinks.

I don't think it would be good to have a 16u minor AA division this year because the 2005 BY is so low. Plus, a lot of those 06 kids already exited PAHL for greener faux pastures. Not that PAHL ever did that for midgets before, but it would be crappy to announce that now after teams have been formed. If you have an 06 BY team and you want to play PAHL you have to decide whether to play AA or A Major. Depending on the team's talent level and the small 05 numbers, a decent 06 team would be ok in AA. A lot of them are starting to play school hockey with older kids anyway. Getting appropriate tournaments would stink, potentially, as directors will want to put you in AA.

This is why BY around here causes such headaches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

16U AA this year is a race for second place. The SCIR 05 team won PAHL last season and they return the entire team.

Agreed, except for one player that was an 06 BY playing up for SCIR and is now on PPE U15 team.

Edited by fafa fohi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Saucey said:

16uAA last year had a fairly significant drop from top half to bottom. That's what people are complaining about regarding PAHL competition. Halt of a crap schedule at that level stinks.

I don't think it would be good to have a 16u minor AA division this year because the 2005 BY is so low. Plus, a lot of those 06 kids already exited PAHL for greener faux pastures. Not that PAHL ever did that for midgets before, but it would be crappy to announce that now after teams have been formed. If you have an 06 BY team and you want to play PAHL you have to decide whether to play AA or A Major. Depending on the team's talent level and the small 05 numbers, a decent 06 team would be ok in AA. A lot of them are starting to play school hockey with older kids anyway. Getting appropriate tournaments would stink, potentially, as directors will want to put you in AA.

This is why BY around here causes such headaches.

I have heard some of the U16 AA teams had to roster 06 players because the 05 BY is so thin of true AA level talent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am starting to understand a little more as to why some people posting are totally against the faux AAA teams and given the last couple of comments I took a look at SCIR's website to see what the 16U National Bound team offers. To me it looks nearly identical, if not more involved than some of these other "AAA" programs, so my question to the knowledgeable folks here is what is the monetary difference between these teams and the "faux" AAA teams? 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, forbin said:

I am starting to understand a little more as to why some people posting are totally against the faux AAA teams and given the last couple of comments I took a look at SCIR's website to see what the 16U National Bound team offers. To me it looks nearly identical, if not more involved than some of these other "AAA" programs, so my question to the knowledgeable folks here is what is the monetary difference between these teams and the "faux" AAA teams? 

 

 

I don't think that team is playing PAHL this year, independent schedule of some sort. Makes sense, they played AA 16u last year. I don't know cost differences.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Saucey said:

I don't think that team is playing PAHL this year, independent schedule of some sort. Makes sense, they played AA 16u last year. I don't know cost differences.

It says on their website; "The 16U team plans to compete in PAHL U16 AA. We believe that playing in the U16 PAHL would provide a high level of competition without the need to travel extensively."

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, forbin said:

I am starting to understand a little more as to why some people posting are totally against the faux AAA teams and given the last couple of comments I took a look at SCIR's website to see what the 16U National Bound team offers. To me it looks nearly identical, if not more involved than some of these other "AAA" programs, so my question to the knowledgeable folks here is what is the monetary difference between these teams and the "faux" AAA teams? 

 

 

This is hard to find.  They play a ton and are on the ice a ton.  This isn't the case with all PAHL teams.    

Edited by twoboys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

http://www.rutschhockey.com/article_is-elite-hockey-really-better.php

The difference between town league hockey and elite hockey can be summed up in one word.

Floor.

That's the difference.

Every single Tier 3, town level, everyone-makes-the-team program out there has excellent players with amazing skill. No question.

The ceiling is identical for all hockey programs. Top end talent exists at all levels and the sky truly is the limit.

It's the floor that's different. VERY different.

Talent aside, on the teams that my kids currently play for, there isn't a single kid on the roster that doesn't want to get better, isn't working on getter better, or that isn't getting better.

I've found that isn't the case with town league travel teams.

Yes, of course, there are kids working their tails off on those teams too...but there are also a handful of players that are, for lack of a better description, just showing up.

It's like real life -- go to any workplace and you can quickly pinpoint those that are just collecting a paycheck.

Elite hockey, in most cases, cuts that group out. They're not there. The floor is raised.

That's the difference and it really comes down to just one more word -- commitment.

Not talking about exorbitant time or financial commitments of "AAA" hockey -- it's the players.

It's tough to find a kid on an elite team's roster that doesn't want to be there.

Same, sadly, can't be said for the town leagues.

It's the added commitment of the kids that raises the floor.

And, while we're slipping into the depth of commitment debate, we're drifting dangerously close to the year round hockey argument...

The Level of Hockey Doesn't Matter

Did I just Read that Right?

Here's a little snippet from an article titled the "Ultimate Hockey Parent Guide" that ran in the August 2018 issue of USA Hockey Magazine.

It was written by Christie Casciano Burns, who often pens the Hockey Mom column in USA Hockey Magazine.

DON'T GET CAUGHT UP IN THE ALPHABET SOUP

http://www.rutschhockey.com/photos/00_COV1_USAHM_August18.jpgFor people outside of youth hockey, AAA is the number you call when your car breaks down. AA puts you on a 12-step program to sobriety. A is the grade you want on your child's report card.

But those letters have a whole different meaning to hockey parents.

The intensity of AAA hockey can build players and families, but it can also break them if they're not careful. That's why it's important to have realistic expectations when it comes to elite travel teams.

Constantly chasing the opportunities by trying to "play up" at the highest level can sometimes hinder a player's development if he or she doesn't get enough ice time or opportunities.

"Honestly, it doesn't make a particle of difference until Midgets," says Alaska hockey mom Diane Firmani. "At younger levels, it's merely bragging rights for parents and instant martyrdom."

As you might expect, this touches a nerve with me.

I will openly admit that I almost always disagree with the stance she takes in her columns but on this small snippet, I agree, whole-heartedly...well, until the final quote is thrown in.

The Alaska hockey mom's statement, "It doesn't make a particle of difference until Midgets" is kind of ignorant, in my opinion.

I mean, look, if your son or daughter is having a great time playing rec level hockey on the weekends, you're in the right place already. There is absolutely no need to look in to or consider AA or AAA hockey.

Elite hockey probably isn't for you, anyway. And that's not a slight on your son or daughter's talent at all.

I've found that most families in that setting, doing the weekends only from October to February thing, while still having the exact same unrealistic NHL dreams as *every* other hockey parent, elite or otherwise, are blind to the fact that Tier 1 teams even exist.

They're the sorts that have the "they'll find you if you're good enough" myth engrained.

But if your son or daughter really seems to love playing the game, regardless of their current talent level, then maybe, just maybe, you should spend some time deciphering the "Alphabet Soup" to supply them with more of what they love...but way, way, WAY before Midgets (age 15).

 

The way Diane Firmani's quote is placed in article gives it context that may or may not have been her intention or what she was actually trying to say. I'm sure it's just a small piece of what she actually said in full and it probably is out of context, though who am I to say?

"It doesn't make a particle of difference until Midgets."

I can't be totally certain what "it" is referring to here, but if it's the level of hockey (like the article implies), she's way off base.

Stats do not matter until Midgets.

But if you're not already in AAA program long before Midgets, you're not going to be properly prepared to play at a AAA level as a Midget.

It's kind of like saying academic performance in school doesn't really matter until high school.

Realistically, it doesn't.

Universities don't care how great of a student you were in 5th grade just as elite Midget programs don't care how great you were as a Squirt.

But can a poor student suddenly "turn it on" in high school?

Pretty unlikely.

I mean, I've never seen it happen. Ever.

Hockey is the same -- good habits, gained early, stay with you all the way through the journey.

You don't just wake up one morning as Wayne Gretzky or as Valedictorian.

That kind of success, athletic or academic, takes years of work and dedication.

 

"At younger levels, it's merely bragging rights for parents and instant martyrdom."

Okay, yes, for some parents, this is true. There will always be parents that go out of their way to talk about how their son or daughter plays on some exclusive Tier 1 AAA Premier summer tournament Selects team.

Normally, I'm not a fan of braggarts or really anyone who's super arrogant about their achievements. It's annoying, right?

I mean, everyone has that one co-worker whose kids seemingly can do no wrong and are awesome at everything... I roll my eyes too.

But at the same time, you almost have to smile that they're so darn proud of their kids.

Do I think my sons, who play AAA hockey, are better hockey players than the kids that don't?

Yes, yes I do.

And here's why... My two oldest, (ages 7 and 9) just recently competed in a summer "rec" league with kids between the ages of 6 and 10. Over the 10 game season, in which my kids only played in 8 of the games, they combined for 73% of their team's offense.

Two players scoring 73% of the points...while missing games. Further, their offensive output made up 31% of the scoring for the ENTIRE league.

Not to brag or anything (ha-ha) but Duncan's league leading scoring total was three times that of the next closest player...and he played in two fewer games.

So, yeah, I think my kids are better than the typical player at their age level and I attribute that entirely to playing AAA hockey cause they weren't always this good.

Oh, and the kid that finished second behind him in scoring...also a AAA hockey player.

Hardly a coincidence.

Circling back around, the AAA players at the Mite and Squirt level will undoubtedly be prepared and ready to play at the AAA Midget level if they choose to.

 

Do I consider myself a martyr for all of the time spent each week shuttling them all over the place?

No way. Not for a second.

People rib me all the time for "always" being at a rink somewhere here or there, hundreds of miles from home. It's like it's a joke or some sort of torture or something but you know what? I love it.

Christine says that "AAA hockey can build players and families" and she's right.

Time at the rink for practices, the idle time before or between games, and time spent in hotel lobbies is all time spent with my kids' friends whose parents are my friends too.

I'm not a martyr. There's isn't an ounce of suffering.

I enjoy arriving 90 minutes prior to every game.

I'm filling my free time surrounded by a few dozen friends...and we all get to include our kids too.

Heh, now that might be something to brag about! ;0)

Oh, and while I said up top that I rarely agree with the stance Christie Casciano Burns takes in her monthly Hockey Mom columns, I must say that her "Puck Hog" book should be standard reading for every single mite and squirt hockey player - especially the stand out players that make it all not-so-fun for everyone else.

I mean, on those, she nailed it.

Not surprisingly, AAA programs coach the exact same thing she's subtly teaching kids in those books.

  • Epic 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, BACKCHECKING said:

But if you're not already in AAA program long before Midgets, you're not going to be properly prepared to play at a AAA level as a Midget

Absolutely wrong.

 

47 minutes ago, BACKCHECKING said:

Circling back around, the AAA players at the Mite and Squirt level will undoubtedly be prepared and ready to play at the AAA Midget level if they choose to

Even more wrong.

For God's sake do some research. Talk to some parents who have been all the way through the process before you come on here talking like you know something. There's a long list of kids that didn't play AAA until Bantam or Midget and went significantly further than those that did. The list of kids that played AAA at squirt and Peewee and couldn't make it at Bantam and Midget is much much longer. Then you say you know your kid is better than kids that don't play AAA because he scored tons of goals in a summer rec league, and you've actually taken the time to compute percentages. Wow!!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

16U AA this year is a race for second place. The SCIR 05 team won PAHL last season and they return the entire team.

Absolutely...they were a very strong team last season in 16UAA.  I don't see anyone else being close.  They were PAHL playoff champions and it was a tossup for everything thing else between them, Foxes (who won the PAHL reg season),  and NP (who won Mid Ams).  The 06 that left was definitely one of the better players on the ice each game...good for him in moving up to AAA.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, BeaverFalls said:

Everyone complains about faux AAA until their kid is bumped down to A minor pink from AA if those kids go back down lmao. 

Once a super star, always a super star.

  • Poop 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/25/2021 at 11:24 AM, hockeyisgreat said:

Interesting, I would think just off the top of my head I could name at least 6 or more organizations that had tryouts for AA U16 teams.  It all comes down to placements doesn't it?  Maybe there are 4 really good teams and then the rest? I would think NP, Allegheny, Renegades, Shaha, Mt Lebo, South Pittsburgh (Rats), Preds, Viper Stars, & Foxes  In no particular order and Maybe Armstong also?

What does the 18’s look like ? (I’m far out of the loop these days). I was told the rats have no U18 team and armstrong didn’t have enough kids at tryouts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Danner27 said:

What does the 18’s look like ? (I’m far out of the loop these days). I was told the rats have no U18 team and armstrong didn’t have enough kids at tryouts. 

NP has one 18U Team.  It will not be AA.   Four  players from their last season's 16UAA team went to the Foxes, who should have a very solid team since most of the players from last year's 16UAA team came back.   The Foxes had around 65 kids at tryouts so they may have 2-3 18U teams...don't know what they ended up with.  The Preds have two 18UAA teams and I'm told SCIR also has a 18UAA team.  That's all I've heard so far...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, sarampage said:

NP has one 18U Team.  It will not be AA.   Four  players from their last season's 16UAA team went to the Foxes, who should have a very solid team since most of the players from last year's 16UAA team came back.   The Foxes had around 65 kids at tryouts so they may have 2-3 18U teams...don't know what they ended up with.  The Preds have two 18UAA teams and I'm told SCIR also has a 18UAA team.  That's all I've heard so far...

Yikes! That’s lining up with what I heard about 3-4 AA teams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Yikes! That’s lining up with what I heard about 3-4 AA teams.

Don't know much about the others organizations.  Hopefully, there's more than 4 AA teams.  My son played 16UAA over the last two seasons and wanted to play 18UAA this upcoming season but bagged it after it was obvious the team he was trying out for was not going to be AA. At that point it was too late to try out anywhere else, so he'll only be playing PIHL.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This year may just be that a lot of players have opted for their HS teams only. Think about what these rising Seniors have been through, the end of their Sophomore year and majority of their Junior year have been completely f'd up. Things may go back to more normalcy if we don't fall victim to the Fauci variant that he's creating.

Edited by dazedandconfused
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dazedandconfused said:

This year may just be that a lot of players have opted for their HS teams only. Think about what these rising Seniors have been through, the end of their Sophomore year and majority of their Junior year have been completely f'd up. Things may go back to more normalcy if we don't fall victim to the Fauci variant that he's creating.

We had quite a run of non-idiotic posts about COVID, who created it and who didn't care if people died because they probably died from something else.  

The string is broken - it was fun while it lasted.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The variant. The variant. Wear a mask forever. Wear 3 masks. Life will never be normal. I am Fauci. Heed my words. This is my 15 months of fame.

Give me a break Fafa. The guy's a fraud and I just hope he isn't permitted to f these kids over again next year with this BS variant nonsense.

If you think it's okay if he does, you're entitled to that opinion in a free country.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...