How do two youth programs continue exist at the same rink?  Do they cooperate?  Or do they compete for the local kids?  Why doesn't one just absorb the other?

According to the Huskies web site, they have one 16u team and one 18u team.  I don't know how they can afford to run an org with only 2 teams.

From the Vipers web site (which doesn't look like it's been updated lately...), they only have one 16u team branded as "Vipers" and the following branded as "Viper Stars": 11u, 12u, 13u, 14u, and 18u, although I am fairly sure they don't have an 18u team.

It seems very confusing to have both a "Vipers" team and a "Viper Stars" team, in addition to "esmark stars" under the hood of one org.

All in all what is out at PIA would probably be confusing to a new hockey parent... especially since neither of the orgs seem to have mites, squirts or pee-wees.  Not sure how that bodes for the long term.

 

From the PAHL website:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vREo1g3uRaOJrhUxI4vysLS1yAPiT15492TLRBb_cVk0GOVj_4sVQ2K-V1Busm1ti8JzxmOVltlcYuV/pubhtml#

Huskies does not have a 16U this year.  Couldn't get enough skaters.   

Huskies 2 teams. The folks who held that organization together for many years, their player aged out so who knows what will happen moving forward.

Aviators 3 teams and no rink. They should probably fold the organization or have it folded for them.

Upon further review, Aviators may only have one team. Website shows a full roster for one of the two 16U teams but no roster for the other one and a 10 player roster for 14U.

Well North Hills has been around a long time.  Any Huskies parents on here - what's your story?  Why not just play for Vipers?

On 8/9/2019 at 4:58 PM, Jack Handey said:

Well North Hills has been around a long time.  Any Huskies parents on here - what's your story?  Why not just play for Vipers?

From what I have heard the Peewee Husky team came from Butler Valley last year.  They wanted to be an 07 team and Butler Valley said no.  The Huskies said yes.  Nice kids, nice parents and nice coach.   

The 07 team is from Butler valley. They are a really nice team. They play well together, they improved alot in the past year and should be ranked pretty high for the season.

Well what happened to the Butler Valley birth year model?  They had an 03 and 04 team so why not allow an 07 team?

Because most of the board (since changed) didn’t have players in that birth year?

A year later, Huskies are down to 1 team? 

At what point do we do a charter review to see if an organization is holding up it's end of the bargain?

I thought Aviators played out of Alpha? 

On 8/9/2019 at 12:56 AM, Ynot02 said:

From the PAHL website:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vREo1g3uRaOJrhUxI4vysLS1yAPiT15492TLRBb_cVk0GOVj_4sVQ2K-V1Busm1ti8JzxmOVltlcYuV/pubhtml#

.

Edited September 10, 20214 yr by BeaverFalls
Old info

here is this year

PAHL 2122 CONTACTS_TEAM CONTACTS BY AGE GROUP - Google Drive

 

4 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

A year later, Huskies are down to 1 team? 

At what point do we do a charter review to see if an organization is holding up it's end of the bargain?

Is it really that big of a deal?  Doesn’t affect me either way. Just wondering what the impact is of them having a team or not having one. 

Hmm... it could be.  A small group of parents or maybe only one parent holding a USAH number and can roster kids willy nilly?  There's some power there that could be abused.  It may not affect any one individual personally, but there should be some oversight to think on behalf of the community if it's a good idea to allow this.

1 hour ago, Jack Handey said:

Hmm... it could be.  A small group of parents or maybe only one parent holding a USAH number and can roster kids willy nilly?  There's some power there that could be abused.  It may not affect any one individual personally, but there should be some oversight to think on behalf of the community if it's a good idea to allow this.

Not that I agree or disagree but could you elaborate?

With PIA having new ownership, who knows what will happen in the future. Black Bear may introduce their own programming and push some organizations out.

Pittsburgh has too many places for the disgruntled with stars in their eyes (pun intended) to go. These BY teams don't work in the long run in our small market. That nice team of 07s that you think will stay together forever, won't. Butler Valley may have thought that group didn't have the talent to play at AA or as a BY in Butler Valley's opinion and refused to hear otherwise. It falls apart eventually, but in the immediate, it hurts an organization, who might have thought this would not be good for the development of the kids.

Sorry, but parents shouldn't determine the makeup of a team, where the team should be placed and whether there is BY. 

"But people should be able to play where ever they want..." sorry, no. The Aviators are a perfect example of a disgruntled dad keeping things alive. I have to caveat that with it's been a few years since my boys played an Aviators team, but I never liked having an Aviators team in my division. They don't have a home sheet so it is problematic to schedule with them. Games don't go off smoothly or get cancelled, again due to their ice issues. And the player/parent behavior was frequently atrocious... because that kind of team attracts the disgruntled. They were fond of sandbagging tournaments, adding AAA players when playing in a division of A Major teams. 

Pittsburgh could use less of these places to go. Parents have too much power here and I think it hurts overall development and the hockey community as a result.

I mean, most of you can't even skate, but somehow you are an expert in how to best develop your kid.

Edited September 11, 20214 yr by Saucey
Correct bad sentence structure

5 hours ago, Saucey said:

With PIA having new ownership, who knows what will happen in the future. Black Bear may introduce their own programming and push some organizations out.

Pittsburgh has too many places for the disgruntled with stars in their eyes (pun intended) to go. These BY teams don't work in the long run in our small market. That nice team of 07s that you think will stay together forever, won't. Butler Valley may have thought that group didn't have the talent to play at AA or as a BY in Butler Valley's opinion and refused to hear otherwise. It falls apart eventually, but in the immediate, it hurts an organization, who might have thought this would not be good for the development of the kids.

Sorry, but parents shouldn't determine the makeup of a team, where the team should be placed and whether there is BY. 

"But people should be able to play where ever they want..." sorry, no. The Aviators are a perfect example of a disgruntled dad keeping things alive. I have to caveat that with it's been a few years since my boys played an Aviators team, but I never liked having an Aviators team in my division. They don't have a home sheet so it is problematic to schedule with them. Games don't go off smoothly or get cancelled, again due to their ice issues. And the player/parent behavior was frequently atrocious... because that kind of team attracts the disgruntled. They were fond of sandbagging tournaments, adding AAA players when playing in a division of A Major teams. 

Pittsburgh could use less of these places to go. Parents have too much power here and I think it hurts overall development and the hockey community as a result.

I mean, most of you can't even skate, but somehow you are an expert in how to best develop your kid.

The Aviators do have a home rink.  This is the second year they have played out of Alpha.  I actually think they are growing.  Did they go from 2 to 4 teams? 

The Huskies 07 team is stable.  The kids and the parents like it.  Each year a few leave and new kids come on board.  Again, everyone is pretty happy from what I have heard.  I actually think their fees are low.  They just don't have the overhead that other organizations have.  

18 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

could you elaborate

So there's an opportunity for corrupt behavior when the same person or same small group of people controls the roster and the purse.  The organization is likely charged by Mid-Am in it's charter with growing the game for its community.  But decision making by the person/persons in charge may be done to favor certain members, or to favor certain bank accounts, in place of doing what is right by the charter for the growth of the game.  John Q Hockey Director can run a pre-tryout camp, then a tryout, then select a team around his child, then charge higher than normal fees and justify it since he can't buy ice at volume pricing.  Then there's payouts to suppliers (jerseys, equipment, referees, EMTs, etc.)  All along, the customers who just want a home for their kids, never stop to think or ask about where the money flows.  So much could go wrong ethically and morally when you have judge/jury/executioner all wrapped into one.

7 minutes ago, twoboys said:

I actually think they are growing. 

LOL.  Growth happens through LTP, 8u ADM, house development, girls development, etc.  You need to read Saucey's remarks a little closer.

The Aviators continue to be disgruntled parents.... their 19u girls team is mostly former Foxes players who were not happy with the coach last season. 

On 9/10/2021 at 8:03 PM, Jack Handey said:

Hmm... it could be.  A small group of parents or maybe only one parent holding a USAH number and can roster kids willy nilly?  There's some power there that could be abused.  It may not affect any one individual personally, but there should be some oversight to think on behalf of the community if it's a good idea to allow this.

Oversight is a good thing but if we are looking for mid-am or usah to provide it…I think they’ve proven their methodology is rather laissez faire at best…

On 9/11/2021 at 4:29 PM, Jack Handey said:

LOL.  Growth happens through LTP, 8u ADM, house development, girls development, etc.  You need to read Saucey's remarks a little closer.

The organization is growing.  Sure they pulled kids from other organizations but they added teams.  I agree LTP and ADM grows the game of hockey. 

I get it people want PAHL to be stronger but what people don't understand is that each year more and more parents chose to leave PAHL.  That is issue.