2022 NTDP Development Camp Roster U-17

[fafa fohi]

Interesting to see who has been chosen for the 2022 NTDP Camp roster - lots of kids from MN, one local kid that plays for BK and a Barons kid………hmmm, what’s missing?

Any guesses?

https://www.usahockeyntdp.com/news_article/show/1213813-2022-ntdp-evaluation-camp-roster-announced

[forbin]

Wouldn’t be surprised if PPE tweets about their former player they cut turned BK kid making the roster…..

[nemesis8679]

20 minutes ago, forbin said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if PPE tweets about their former player they cut turned BK kid making the roster…..

How on earth did that kid get cut? 

[Danner27]

5 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Interesting to see who has been chosen for the 2022 NTDP Camp roster - lots of kids from MN, one local kid that plays for BK and a Barons kid………hmmm, what’s missing?

Any guesses?

https://www.usahockeyntdp.com/news_article/show/1213813-2022-ntdp-evaluation-camp-roster-announced

The oddity about the local BK player - for years, his mom was very very Involved with PPE & the Pens Foundation. I’m guessing there was a falling out between PPE & the parents. It appears the older son (2004) is also at BK. 

[Saucey]

All that chasing people do. ?‍♂️ Still the big hockey states, still the big programs.

[hockeyisgreat]

So I guess we should all just quit having our kids play hockey in South Western Pa!

[Jack Handey]

I like that one kid plays at "Northern Alberta XTreme 18u".  Next stop, Federal League?

 

[Saucey]

3 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So I guess we should all just quit having our kids play hockey in South Western Pa!

I've never said that  I love hockey. My kids love hockey.

I see the faux 'AAA' programs chasing the squirt group now. Get em while their parents really know nothing. 

[sadday4hockey]

While that may be true, the PPE laid the groundwork for early recruiting with the "Elite Mites".

They use the Jam to secure every participants contact info and then the great push by Trevor Edwards to get them to bring their SuperStar to the only place for developing their great talents.

Then 5 years (2 @8U) of bleeding them dry before they cast off more than half at 12U Major and then of course, the final purge of local players at 14U and 15U to get the high rent out of town players to stay, play and mostly PAY.

What a great job they've done growing local hockey.

[hockeyisgreat]

1 hour ago, Saucey said:

I've never said that  I love hockey. My kids love hockey.

I see the faux 'AAA' programs chasing the squirt group now. Get em while their parents really know nothing. 

HOPEFULLY, Boards like this and smart parents who have been through it will educate those new parents but it is worse than ever with all the programs doing AAA!

[Saucey]

12 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

HOPEFULLY, Boards like this and smart parents who have been through it will educate those new parents but it is worse than ever with all the programs doing AAA!

It's like yelling into the wind.

It just makes me sad, because we are moving into a direction that makes hockey more elite in terms of access. It doesn't grow the game to make AA into low level AAA teams. Just more expense.

[twoboys]

People constantly complain about the cost of hockey.  The people that do the most complaining probably don't have kids playing other sports.  Every sport is expensive.  

[mrfreeze]

On 3/25/2022 at 1:29 PM, sadday4hockey said:

While that may be true, the PPE laid the groundwork for early recruiting with the "Elite Mites".

They use the Jam to secure every participants contact info and then the great push by Trevor Edwards to get them to bring their SuperStar to the only place for developing their great talents.

Then 5 years (2 @8U) of bleeding them dry before they cast off more than half at 12U Major and then of course, the final purge of local players at 14U and 15U to get the high rent out of town players to stay, play and mostly PAY.

What a great job they've done growing local hockey.

Wow, this statement could not be more true. The BK kid left, he was not cut. Don't worry they will pump the 07 that will make the program next year, that they developed him when in reality it was all his dad's hard work and dedication. He would have left this year and probably bailed because of having to do excel and NC, but they gave him a free pass and his daughter a job. If he would have said no to excel and NC, it would have been a disaster and a huge blow to what they are selling. I will say it now, that 07 PPE will blow up next year, turn over at least 8-10 kids, maybe more, lot of kids will leave including a long time board members kid that does not want to do excel/nc. The best kid will go to the 16u team, which will probably also blow up after loosing to the Cleveland Barons 3 times this year with all the cast offs, they cut. That 06 group will probably loose a couple more of the few Pittsburgh kids that are left as I think people are starting to realize having to do excel/NC and midget hockey costing $35,000 to $60.000 a year to play there, is not worth it and have other options. I'll be curious at what point will this change, if ever. New Pens ownership, will it eventually look at what is going on and get out of youth hockey or keep messing with it, will we see a new hockey director at UPMC in next year or 2? Sad part is the Academy programs are here to stay. Unfortunately if you kid is not a top ten kid in the country that gets a free pass, and you don't have lots of money, you kid will not be a PPE player past bantam.  PPE does not care about the local kids. If your kid has the talent, it is best to leave Pittsburgh if you want to play at the higher levels. Looks at the 06 group, The best forward, defenseman and goalie that are from Pittsburgh, don't play in Pittsburgh. Can't wait to see the fall out this year at PPE tryouts and what happens at the bantam and midget levels.

Edited March 26, 2022 by mrfreeze
spelling

[nemesis8679]

Even if my kid was the next Crosby, Excel/NC would be a deal breaker. What a joke. Good on that kid who left. 

[Duster19]

Two words.  Money Grab.

But, if that’s how folks want to spend their money then have at it.

[aaaahockey]

Pre-Excel I used to defend PPE in a sense that it was a money grab but at least you were getting some of the best development around.  Now, I question both that the development is that good and when you factor in the associated Excel and travel costs it is insane.  Even if we are crazy or rich enough to spend that kind of money, step back and think about better hockey opportunities you could pay for your kids with that amount of money?   I could rent a condo in Minnesota and live there for high school for that money ?

[Saucey]

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

Pre-Excel I used to defend PPE in a sense that it was a money grab but at least you were getting some of the best development around.  Now, I question both that the development is that good and when you factor in the associated Excel and travel costs it is insane.  Even if we are crazy or rich enough to spend that kind of money, step back and think about better hockey opportunities you could pay for your kids with that amount of money?   I could rent a condo in Minnesota and live there for high school for that money ?

Not that I disagree, but let's set aside the money for a second and ask a different question about the system that PPE has set up. Maybe it is not a question of talent of the players, or of the coaching. 

I have doubts that treating children as adults and training them as adults...is good for children. The entire system that has evolved regarding sport and kids, not just in hockey. With Excel, the multiple ice touches per day plus off ice training sounds good in theory. But children...are not adults. They have things to do that the professional adult player does not. School. And growing. When in this system do they get a chance...to be children? To rest? When is hockey...fun? I have never met a PPE player who seems to be enjoying themselves. Even in these questionable 'AAA' programs that keep popping up, I do run into kids who seem to be enjoying themselves.

Perhaps it is a failure of the adults all around who push too hard. Parents and the PPE who cater to them.

[dazedandconfused]

13 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Now, I question both that the development is that good

Here is  an opportunity for everyone to look at this and take some factual data to make that decision. The Vengeance began their youth movement with the 08 group. That was the 1st and maybe really the only age group where PPE took a substantial hit right out of the gate as far as getting say 90% of players they would have wanted. That's 5 years of data from the rankings and over that time the rankings have almost become an inversion of 5 years ago. What does this say about the differing approaches that have been used?

I'll hang up and listen for your answer.

[hockeyisgreat]

11 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

Here is  an opportunity for everyone to look at this and take some factual data to make that decision. The Vengeance began their youth movement with the 08 group. That was the 1st and maybe really the only age group where PPE took a substantial hit right out of the gate as far as getting say 90% of players they would have wanted. That's 5 years of data from the rankings and over that time the rankings have almost become an inversion of 5 years ago. What does this say about the differing approaches that have been used?

I'll hang up and listen for your answer.

It is sad that the 08 Vengeance and the 08 PPE did not play each other.  I guess we will get a better look at it next year.  I would assume a big difference in cost to play.  

[Pucks11]

23 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

It is sad that the 08 Vengeance and the 08 PPE did not play each other.  I guess we will get a better look at it next year.  I would assume a big difference in cost to play.  

Talking to parents from both sides it is about $2,500-$3,000 difference just with the initial cost. That is crazy since the Pens have all of those sponsors plastered all over the building/rinks and they get all of their uniforms/warm-ups/bags etc donated by DICK'S. With the Pens you HAVE to buy the golden bucket, gloves and pants. While the Vengeance everything listed from donations and forced to buy from Pens is included in the initial cost. 

Gym/training facility obviously the Pens have the bigger/nicer facilities. 

1 has 2 rinks and shared practices (not all of them) 1 has 3 rinks and no shared practices.  

Local vs out of state development the Vengeance have. 

1 organization runs all of the local pros out for their buddies- Pens

Most of the guys that "make it" anywhere now (out of Pittsburgh) will not even claim the Pens as their development organization. 

Supposedly the 08's were scheduled to meet out of town but the Pens stomped their feet and threatened to take their ball and go home if the other team was there. 

They can't be the 2nd best team in the area, watch the 06 get blown up after losing to a bunch of players they cut.