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2 hours ago, Quinlan2020a said:

The anti-mask people are politically driven. Weed them out and maybe the season has a chance.

Give me a F*** break. There is NO STATISTIC that shows masks do ANYTHING.  This is 100% politically driven.

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The PAHL has just sent an email requiring all players to wear face diapers inside their helmets.  I would like to see the State of PA and/or the PAHL show me a study where 1 single player has caught COVID while playing on the ice in a 38 degree building.

what a crock.

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4 minutes ago, Wes said:

The PAHL has just sent an email requiring all players to wear face diapers inside their helmets.  I would like to see the State of PA and/or the PAHL show me a study where 1 single player has caught COVID while playing on the ice in a 38 degree building.

what a crock.

This is the problem. We were told this time would be different. Targeted mitigation based on tracking data right??? No evidence of transmissions via sports yet here we are.

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8 minutes ago, Wes said:

 I would like to see the State of PA and/or the PAHL show me a study where 1 single player has caught COVID while playing on the ice in a 38 degree building.

They can't...my son plays in PIHL and PAHL, and no player has caught covid from being at the rink.  In fact, not one player has tested positive on either team to this point.  The only disruption has been forced quarantining by the school district.

...and this is from his teams being at the rink 5-7 days/week.

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2 hours ago, Lifelongbender said:

I'm sorry, but this is simply incorrect. Like it or not face masking is mandated by the state government. From the header of the recent order:

From section 2 of the order:

My emphasis on the above quotes. Obviously the list of circumstances continues ad nauseum.

For the record, this question and answer are part of the FAQ that was released yesterday about the mask mandate:

Again, emphasis mine.

Whatever you may think about the reasonableness or efficacy of masking in controlling this outbreak, it is a fact that our state government has decided that you must wear masks in public places indoors whether or not social distancing can be maintained. There cannot be any doubt that until tested by a Court and then vacated by the Court this order must be considered a legal and binding one. Any claim otherwise is incorrect. For the record I doubt strongly that masking at any time is worthwhile, and I am certain that masking on ice, while possible and not really dangerous as some have claimed, is ridiculous and has no merit. I just wanted to make sure that there aren't people who think that this is somehow not a legally binding order. You, your organization, and the ice rink, can all be cited for violation of this order (although it's not clear to me from this order/FAQ response what the possible consequences for an individual might be from a legal standpoint).

There is an exemption for medical issues in Section 3. It's a safe bet that nobody will wear a mask on the ice, and refer to that when called out for it. Eventually there will be a shutdown because they'll say we aren't complying with "commonsense measures to control the outbreak" or something that means the same thing.

My kids have games on both days of this weekend, but I'd be willing to give at least even odds that we don't even get to play this weekend, much less any weekend afterwards.

It’s not a order, no court stepped in to enforce it. It’s not a mandate, they sit have the power, wolf is already waiting on an appeal for the first case he lost. you do not have to follow it but you have to follow how private business is run. He-she even said they have no way to enforce these things, they are recommendations! 

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17 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

It’s not a order, no court stepped in to enforce it. It’s not a mandate, they sit have the power, wolf is already waiting on an appeal for the first case he lost. you do not have to follow it but you have to follow how private business is run. He-she even said they have no way to enforce these things, they are recommendations! 

The fact that there isn't an enforcement mechanism for some of this, especially that which may occur in a private home, doesn't mean it isn't a legal order. I'm not sure that I think such things are or at least should be constitutional, but the order does have the force of law, even if it can't be enforced in some situations. You can be denied entry to a business for not wearing a mask; a business can lose their license for not complying with the order. 

Believe what you want. We are going to get shut down completely soon enough, but it's you guys who refuse to go along that are going to make it that much sooner. Wearing a mask is a small price to pay for your kids to get to play, even if it is ridiculous.

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15 minutes ago, Lifelongbender said:

The fact that there isn't an enforcement mechanism for some of this, especially that which may occur in a private home, doesn't mean it isn't a legal order. I'm not sure that I think such things are or at least should be constitutional, but the order does have the force of law, even if it can't be enforced in some situations. You can be denied entry to a business for not wearing a mask; a business can lose their license for not complying with the order. 

Believe what you want. We are going to get shut down completely soon enough, but it's you guys who refuse to go along that are going to make it that much sooner. Wearing a mask is a small price to pay for your kids to get to play, even if it is ridiculous.

 

BA39764B-FD62-4DD8-83D0-C1CE6BD7997B.jpeg

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There is no point in trying to prove what is fact to those that choose live in the alternate reality. Too many people simply get there news from places that gone over the edge of crazy. The political figures that they worship reinforce these beliefs under the disguise that they are their liberators. They are simply cult leaders and enablers that believe it is in their self-interest to deceive the weak-minded. History will not be kind to them in the long run. I had a couple hockey parents tell me that this Covid hysteria would be over on November 4th. I probably could never prove to them that Covid is still here even if I took them on a tour through the stretched & overrun hospitals in the mid-west, Thank goodness they are still thoroughly outnumbered by the people that have the ability to understand logic & facts, 

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1 hour ago, BeaverFalls said:

Because Vox has a long standing history of credible and impartial news. 

Next time, pull your head out and read the actual article and since you clearly didn't, there were multiple sources and studies cited while one of them is Dr. Brix, who happens to serve on 45's COVID Task Force.  Or is she a partisan Democrat hack in disguise?   And a simple Google search would lead you to dozens of studies, pretty graphs and articles supporting this conclusion.

And since you didn't bother to read the article - "study published October 23 in Nature Medicine by IHME’s forecasting team modeled current public health interventions — projecting case numbers based on current behavior — and found that universal mask use could save as many as 130,000 lives by the end of February 2021."

Lastly, laziness just makes you look ignorant and stupid.  And if you need help with some of the big words while reading, you let me know.

Cheers. 

https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleId=26643&publicid=743

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-masks/masks-significantly-reduce-infection-risk-likely-preventing-thousands-of-covid-19-cases-study-idUSKBN23J33V

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3 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Next time, pull your head out and read the actual article and since you clearly didn't, there were multiple sources and studies cited while one of them is Dr. Brix, who happens to serve on 45's COVID Task Force.  Or is she a partisan Democrat hack in disguise?   And a simple Google search would lead you to dozens of studies, pretty graphs and articles supporting this conclusion.

And since you didn't bother to read the article - "study published October 23 in Nature Medicine by IHME’s forecasting team modeled current public health interventions — projecting case numbers based on current behavior — and found that universal mask use could save as many as 130,000 lives by the end of February 2021."

Lastly, laziness just makes you look ignorant and stupid.  And if you need help with some of the big words while reading, you let me know.

Cheers. 

https://hartfordhealthcare.org/about-us/news-press/news-detail?articleId=26643&publicid=743

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-masks/masks-significantly-reduce-infection-risk-likely-preventing-thousands-of-covid-19-cases-study-idUSKBN23J33V

Realize what you're dealing with here. They would believe water was dry if their cult leader told them.

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4 hours ago, Wes said:

Give me a F*** break. There is NO STATISTIC that shows masks do ANYTHING.  This is 100% politically driven.

The “droplet” projectiles coming from coughs, sneezes, breathing in general are deterred by mask wearing. It is a layer of deterrence that is better than nothing.  

So the masks are doing something. I don’t think we need a statistic to believe that putting something in front of our mouth and nose is going to help stop droplets from shooting straight out of our mouth and nose. 

The best evidence for this is to watch a video of a sneeze shown with infrared, or even breathing in general. 

A mask, coupled with 6 ft of distance significantly raises your chances of avoiding the virus. It’s not fail proof by any stretch, but it’s a lot better then no mask. 
 

Really though, we have to stop viewing it as our mask protecting us. Our mask is protecting everyone else, and others masks are protecting us. 

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7 hours ago, forbin said:

@hockeyisgreat Where were you? Because all PAHL ADM jams this season only have 4 teams. Look at the website.

I am naively optimistic that we can get through this coming weekend and hopefully thanksgiving tournament weekend. I could see PAHL halting play until after Christmas. Hopefully the rinks can still stay open for practices during that time.

 

There are organizations who aren't in the PAHL that have ADM teams. I actually was at 2 different ADM jams. The first was like you described the second was not. Pretty sure they are not in PAHL. Play an independant schedule.  Believe me the stands were packed. My fault for staying. So far no Corona for me. It has been 10 days since that Jamboree. 

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9 hours ago, Danner27 said:

But it’s not an “order” or “mandate”. It’s a recommendation. The problem falls with liability towards personal business (ice rinks). The rinks should be making the call in regards to on ice masks, not any league. 

Masking is not a recommendation. It is an order. 

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10 hours ago, Wes said:

Give me a F*** break. There is NO STATISTIC that shows masks do ANYTHING.  This is 100% politically driven.

they only work for youth sports. Apparently if you are on the Steelers, Governor Wolf gives you an exemption. Must not be able to get covid If you play professional sports 

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6 hours ago, bender05 said:

they only work for youth sports. Apparently if you are on the Steelers, Governor Wolf gives you an exemption. Must not be able to get covid If you play professional sports 

In all fairness, professional players are tested frequently and can control their exposure better than people at large because their job is going to the stadium, and not to an office building. This is not an entirely fair criticism because it compares apples to oranges.

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15 hours ago, Quinlan2020a said:

There is no point in trying to prove what is fact to those that choose live in the alternate reality. Too many people simply get there news from places that gone over the edge of crazy. The political figures that they worship reinforce these beliefs under the disguise that they are their liberators. They are simply cult leaders and enablers that believe it is in their self-interest to deceive the weak-minded. History will not be kind to them in the long run. I had a couple hockey parents tell me that this Covid hysteria would be over on November 4th. I probably could never prove to them that Covid is still here even if I took them on a tour through the stretched & overrun hospitals in the mid-west, Thank goodness they are still thoroughly outnumbered by the people that have the ability to understand logic & facts, 

To be clear, I'm not saying that the order is reasonable. I'm not even arguing that it is constitutional (though the courts have long recognized that rights can be reasonably limited in respect of the welfare of the nation as a whole). I am simply saying that the claim that the order isn't a legally binding thing is false. We can understand that it might not meet the criteria required to be considered Constitutional if tested by a court, but we must still understand that it is the law of the land until that time. The rinks we all depend upon have everything riding on this.

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14 hours ago, bender05 said:

Look at the Varsity schedules on PIHL and see how many games say Postponed. 

It's true that there were several games postponed this week, including a number between local teams in the Pittsburgh sense, but most of the games that have been postponed are between Pittsburgh area teams and teams in West Virginia. The second of the two orders made travel to West Virginia for purposes other than a commute for work or medical treatment essentially impossible.

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17 hours ago, Quinlan2020a said:

There is no point in trying to prove what is fact to those that choose live in the alternate reality. Too many people simply get there news from places that gone over the edge of crazy. The political figures that they worship reinforce these beliefs under the disguise that they are their liberators. They are simply cult leaders and enablers that believe it is in their self-interest to deceive the weak-minded. History will not be kind to them in the long run. I had a couple hockey parents tell me that this Covid hysteria would be over on November 4th. I probably could never prove to them that Covid is still here even if I took them on a tour through the stretched & overrun hospitals in the mid-west, Thank goodness they are still thoroughly outnumbered by the people that have the ability to understand logic & facts, 

Trying to figure out if you’re referring to the cult leaders in the Republican Party or the cult leaders in the Democrat Party.

Asking for a friend.

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It's pretty clear that when the molecule size of the virus is smaller than the size of a facemask, that the facemasks are a fail.  Secondly, man has survived 6 million years through viruses, disasters, etc. and has never had to wear facemasks or quarantine before.  Therefore I ask why are we doing this now?

 

Even a military enforced quarantine can't stop the virus

https://www.aier.org/article/even-a-military-enforced-quarantine-cant-stop-the-virus-study-reveals/

Large Danish RCT N-4900 of masking for prevention of C19 infection FAILED, rather predictably (given influenza RCTs) with a non-significant & clinically IRRELEVANT “0.3%” absolute “risk reduction”. Published in preeminent internal medicine Ann Intern Med

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

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