Midam/USA hockey decision on hockey

[Danner27]

20 minutes ago, miked said:

check that, fafa fohi flipped one so it's now 13 dems needing flipped 

We are not talking about 2787, that bill doesn’t do anything for hockey. That was also an easy flip, why do you think wolf Came our an hour before the vote and said sure specters can go BUT limits will not be raised. 

[fafa fohi]

13 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Please dig back and tell me when I recited my sons great career. I have only done so when ask about it. 
do you understand what this next bill is ? Did you read it ? It’s going straight party line. Wolf will be able to veto it. They don’t want indoor limits raised. Did you watch the floor sessions Tuesday and wed ? I did. 
 

scroll back in this thread, I am the one that was calling friends not involved in hockey, in a district (mt lebo) I don’t live in to help get rep miller to flip on 2787, he was a NO. did the four Lebo residents that contacted him for me help ? I don’t know but I’ve done my part and I still am. I would like to see my niece play her first full ice game this season! I’ve contacted my local rep, I’ve contacted non hockey families in other districts to help pressure those reps.  

come back to this post when the votes are released for 2832, when it’s not veto proof because the democrats voted straight party line. 

you do sound about as brilliant as Gary, you horse tooth jackass. 

Thanks Benji - listening to your daily babble and being in your vortex is too much for anyone to handle.

And most importantly, don’t forget to continue to provide regular updates on which rinks your PPE kid is skating, who he’s skating with, how long his shifts were during scrimmages, etc.

Edited September 4, 2020 by fafa fohi

[aaaahockey]

Anyone have friends in Michigan?   It looks like they can play regular games now with two spectators per player.  Are there caveats to that?

[Quinlan2020]

58 minutes ago, miked said:

you do, you just won't admit it because it's "BS"

So it sounds like you already know all the answers. And republican politicians know everything about how to handle everything related to the pandemic and democrats know nothing? It's that simple. No middle ground. It's crazy that so many people are looking for solutions for a problem that is so easily solved. Maybe it's not a problem at all. Maybe we just need to convince everyone that there is no problem. That will benefit more than hockey. The economy will just take off. Just tell everyone not to be afraid. 

[miked]

2 hours ago, Quinlan2020 said:

So it sounds like you already know all the answers. And republican politicians know everything about how to handle everything related to the pandemic and democrats know nothing? It's that simple. No middle ground. It's crazy that so many people are looking for solutions for a problem that is so easily solved. Maybe it's not a problem at all. Maybe we just need to convince everyone that there is no problem. That will benefit more than hockey. The economy will just take off. Just tell everyone not to be afraid. 

oh for gods sakes would you stop with the d@mn crying and whining about how everyone thinks they can fix the the virus and how flippin scared you are!!! 

this statement "you do, you just won't admit it because it's "BS"" has to do with your refusal to admit that this is a partisan fight, not what either party knows about a virus. 

the safety of our kids is being determined by a political pissing match and you simply refuse to acknowledge it and stand behind some crappy sarcastic statements. OVER AND OVER.

when facts are presented to you, you ignore them completely. the restrictions in place are making hockey not only more physically dangerous, they are making the spread of the virus MORE LIKELY. WTF do you not understand about this?

the simple fact is these restrictions are causing situations that fly directly in the face of CDC recommendations. no kid sits on the bench by the same person for 15 minutes during a game, but to protect us from this non threat (per CDC guidance), we have to put kids in a closed in locker room for over 15 minutes. 

you're the one with the MASSIVE virus fear, you should be having anxiety about this more than anyone.

 

and honestly you or anyone can be as scared or not scared as you want, because it doesn't matter. you want to hear what doctors are saying? here you go, the NHL on return to play. 

"One thing we've learned from the many doctors that are advising us on our wellness council, as well as our task force, is that like the flu, this thing will be with us forever, so the key is to put it in a box."

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29782402/what-hearing-2020-21-nhl-season

 

You get that? FOREVER. You think the Spanish flu went away? Nope.

https://www.salon.com/2019/01/02/the-same-flu-virus-that-caused-the-1918-pandemic-is-back-this-year/

Is it sinking in now? we have to live with this forever and that means forcing politicians to make decisions that actually foster a safer environment. decisions that actually make sense. if you think having an indoor limit that doesn't take square footage, height of ceiling, ventilation, etc... into account, then you are simply beyond the reach of common sense. 

[Danner27]

5 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Thanks Benji - listening to your daily babble and being in your vortex is too much for anyone to handle.

And most importantly, don’t forget to continue to provide regular updates on which rinks your PPE kid is skating, who he’s skating with, how long his shifts were during scrimmages, etc.

Completely ignored the rebuttal I gave you in regards to the argument you started with me. 

[Danner27]

Please send those to all your local reps.

[fafa fohi]

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

Completely ignored the rebuttal I gave you in regards to the argument you started with me. 

Democratic party Reps. Mullert, Snyder and Kulik are co-sponsors of HR 2832.  Democratic party Senator Williams has also expressed support for 2832.

So much for Dems not supporting this bill.

Is that the rebuttal you were looking for?

[Danner27]

“The Pennsylvania Department of Health reported 891 new coronavirus cases Friday, marking an uptick in infections in recent days.”

Good luck with that bipartisan bill, the election is getting closer - covid cases are now going up! 3 dems support 2832, yep that will get it done. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Danner27

[carroll81]

Potential thorn in the side to open sports has popped up here in the east.  6 girls on a high school cheer squad test positive.  Leads to 60 people quarantined.  Contracted when one of the girls hung out with a friend who was a field hockey player.  They were a school sponsored team at a private competition.  Not sure if the competition was in state or out of state.  The optics don't help the case for opening up sports.

[fafa fohi]

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

“The Pennsylvania Department of Health reported 891 new coronavirus cases Friday, marking an uptick in infections in recent days.”

Good luck with that bipartisan bill, the election is getting closer - covid cases are now going up! 3 dems support 2832, yep that will get it done. 

Uh, no.  Reread what I wrote.  

Three Dems co-sponsored 2832.  More support it.  This contradicts everything you have said about this being a partisan bill and that all Dems and I’m paraphrasing here,  “side with Wolfe.”  I have proven you wrong more than once.  

Are you just wasting my time on purpose or secretly hoping the bill doesn’t pass so you can take your victory lap and say “I told you so.”  If I we’re a betting man I’d put my money here.

A week from now you can address me as Carnac.  

[Danner27]

18 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Uh, no.  Reread what I wrote.  

Three Dems co-sponsored 2832.  More support it.  This contradicts everything you have said about this being a partisan bill and that all Dems and I’m paraphrasing here,  “side with Wolfe.”  I have proven you wrong more than once.  

Are you just wasting my time on purpose or secretly hoping the bill doesn’t pass so you can take your victory lap and say “I told you so.”  If I we’re a betting man I’d put my money here.

A week from now you can address me as Carnac.  

Buddy, come back when they vote, I would very much like to be wrong. You’re just flapping your gums like Gary at this point. What did your ever prove me wrong on ? 

[Danner27]

On 9/3/2020 at 11:00 PM, Danner27 said:

Please dig back and tell me when I recited my sons great career. I have only done so when ask about it. 
do you understand what this next bill is ? Did you read it ? It’s going straight party line. Wolf will be able to veto it. They don’t want indoor limits raised. Did you watch the floor sessions Tuesday and wed ? I did. 
 

scroll back in this thread, I am the one that was calling friends not involved in hockey, in a district (mt lebo) I don’t live in to help get rep miller to flip on 2787, he was a NO. did the four Lebo residents that contacted him for me help ? I don’t know but I’ve done my part and I still am. I would like to see my niece play her first full ice game this season! I’ve contacted my local rep, I’ve contacted non hockey families in other districts to help pressure those reps.  

come back to this post when the votes are released for 2832, when it’s not veto proof because the democrats voted straight party line. 

you do sound about as brilliant as Gary, you horse tooth jackass. 

@fafa fohi what have you actually done besides flap your gums here ? I got some non hockey people to call their local reps. again, please tell us all what you have personally done. If you scroll through this entire thread, you will see I have been a huge supporter, trying to help all these kids get back on the ice. I’m still waiting for you to show me when and where I’ve bragged about my kids, I’ve only answered about them when ask. Letting folks know my oldest was skating at alpha with high level kids was not one, I’ll debunk that for you now before you try to twist the narrative, that thread was about Alpha being open early, folks wanting to know who, why and how.

 

[fafa fohi]

8 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Buddy, come back when they vote, I would very much like to be wrong. You’re just flapping your gums like Gary at this point. What did your ever prove me wrong on ? 

Hey Benji - I guess I have to provide your actual quote now since it appears you forgot what you wrote - "let’s face it - the democrats side with wolf. That’s just the way politics are. 2838 goes completely against wolf, raises limits indoor based on capacity, not just 25..."

I provided facts to dispute what you have said on this thread that no Dems will go against Wolfe nor support this bill. You said it, not me. I then provided specific Democratic congressmen that not only support it but co-sponsored it. I provided actual names and now, you backpedal and say you weren’t wrong? 

And you now ask what have I personally done, other than be part of a group that has swayed a state Senator and providing her actual response for all to read?  

Clearly you are still living in your sad vortex.

Edited September 5, 2020 by fafa fohi

[Danner27]

2 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Hey Benji - I guess I have to provide your actual quote now since it appears you forgot what you wrote - "let’s face it - the democrats side with wolf. That’s just the way politics are. 2838 goes completely against wolf, raises limits indoor based on capacity, not just 25..."

I provided facts to dispute what you have said on this thread that no Dems will go against Wolfe nor support this bill. You said it, not me. I then provided specific Democratic congressmen that not only support it but co-sponsored it. I provided actual names and now, you backpedal and say you weren’t wrong? 

And you now ask what have I personally done, other than be part of a group that has swayed a state Senator and providing her actual response for all to read?  

Clearly you are still living in your sad vortex.

I stand behind the quote, I’m not disputing that. I already stated I hope to be proven wrong. For the sake of these kids, I HOPE I AM WRONG. 3 dems being on board is not a 2/3rd vote. As I’ve told you above, this bill is nothing like 2787, it goes against the governors recommendations and mandate.  

You accuse me of doing nothing to help but we’ve both apparently done the same thing. 
 

you completely glossed over the other things you have accused me of.  

[fafa fohi]

10 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

I stand behind the quote, I’m not disputing that. I already stated I hope to be proven wrong. For the sake of these kids, I HOPE I AM WRONG. 3 dems being on board is not a 2/3rd vote. As I’ve told you above, this bill is nothing like 2787, it goes against the governors recommendations and mandate.  

You accuse me of doing nothing to help but we’ve both apparently done the same thing. 
 

you completely glossed over the other things you have accused me of.  

I repeat.......THREE DEMS CO-SPONSORED THE BILL.  You keep saying only three support it, which is false.  And you are standing by your quote that is also false.  I proved it to be false.

This shouldn’t be that hard.  

Just stop.  

Edited September 5, 2020 by fafa fohi

[Danner27]

28 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

I repeat.......THREE DEMS CO-SPONSORED THE BILL.  You keep saying only three support it, which is false.  And you are standing by your quote that is also false.  I proved it to be false.

This shouldn’t be that hard.  

Just stop.  

It’s not false, the bill has not been to the house floor for a vote! 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Danner27

[Saucey]

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

It’s not false, the bill has not been to the house floor for a vote! 

Not that I want to get into the middle of this, but his point was that not everyone is currently voting by party line. You may be right, that may yet come. I'm tired of people voting strictly by party. Our two-system-you-suck-if-you -aren't -for-me attitude of our politicians and Facebook memes are not moving our country forward. Need to work together. That used to happen. Not gonna happen any time soon.

[Ynot02]

I’m not sure that it’s possible, but I’d like to hear some opinions without getting into politics, or rink or organization bashing. 

We all know the current mandates and the potential adjustments that are being proposed for how hockey will be played this season, at least until some of the restrictions are lifted in our favor. 

We also know that there are a few rinks in the area that are operating “business as usual” for the most part - 5v5 games, full benches, and no spectator limits.

So, is this a problem, or will what they are doing actually help us move forward and get some of the restrictions lifted? When you see well publicized events happening, such as the soccer tournament, Trump rally in Latrobe, protests, etc, that don’t abide by the mandates, it makes me think that it gives those rinks and orgs a leg to stand on if anyone actually tried to take legal action. 

The USA Hockey/MIDAM statement on not sanctioning games really only seems to be a legal CYA on their part. They are discouraging going against the state mandates, but does anyone really believe the games being played aren’t going to “count” towards MIDAMS? As someone mentioned earlier, is anyone really enforcing that? This isn’t meant to bash MIDAM, but do we really think they are going to look at LiveBarn (where available), check scoresheets for reduced rosters and MYHockey for reported games to decide if it should be sanctioned or not? 

I won’t be surprised if those not following the rules come out as the winners in this whole scenario. Thoughts?

Edited September 6, 2020 by Ynot02

[aaaahockey]

31 minutes ago, Ynot02 said:

I’m not sure that it’s possible, but I’d like to hear some opinions without getting into politics, or rink or organization bashing. 

We all know the current mandates and the potential adjustments that are being proposed for how hockey will be played this season, at least until some of the restrictions are lifted in our favor. 

We also know that there are a few rinks in the area that are operating “business as usual” for the most part - 5v5 games, full benches, and no spectator limits.

So, is this a problem, or will what they are doing actually help us move forward and get some of the restrictions lifted? When you see well publicized events happening, such as the soccer tournament, Trump rally in Latrobe, protests, etc, that don’t abide by the mandates, it makes me think that it gives those rinks and orgs a leg to stand on if anyone actually tried to take legal action. 

The USA Hockey/MIDAM statement on not sanctioning games really only seems to be a legal CYA on their part. They are discouraging going against the state mandates, but does anyone really believe the games being played aren’t going to “count” towards MIDAMS? As someone mentioned earlier, is anyone really enforcing that? This isn’t meant to bash MIDAM, but do we really think they are going to look at LiveBarn (where available), check scoresheets for reduced rosters and MYHockey for reported games to decide if it should be sanctioned or not? 

I won’t be surprised if those not following the rules come out as the winners in this whole scenario. Thoughts?

Barring someone getting sued (which I think is a stretch because there is a pretty hard burden to prove someone got a disease at a specific place and time) or a rink actually getting shut down by the health department (less likely the longer time goes on in my opinion) those not following the rules will be winners.  Are there actual programs who aren't playing games? (I mean I would assume every team is scheduling some sort of scrimmage games even if they are traveling out of state or am I wrong?)

[fafa fohi]

In doing some research these talking points below have been circulating amongst a group of friends of mine.  They should be included on any correspondence you send to your legislators regarding #2832.  We are dealing with people that have zero hockey sense nor perspective on rink size, player interaction, etc. so some points  are common sense to us but will help getting those not connected to the sport to understand the challenges we face.

*An ice hockey rink is 200- by 85-feet: that's 17,000 square feet of space just in the playing surface, with the overall averaging 25,000 Square feet.  Most facilities with two sheets of ice are over 65,000 square feet!

*Under current restrictions in PA, NJ and DE, other more riskier sports are able to fully resume, in much smaller buildings.

*50 people in a rink means 500 square feet per person. This is WAY more than restaurants, gyms, entertainment facilities, tattoo parlors, and more. This is also way more space per person than all other sports.

*The National Federation of State High School Associations classifies ice hockey as "Moderate Risk" along with basketball, volleyball, soccer, field hockey, girls lacrosse, and 7-on-7 football.

*Hockey players never share equipment, do not touch the puck, and there is no skin-to-skin contact.

*Research from Eastern Michigan University shows that during a typical hockey game player-to-player close proximity is limited to 3 seconds.

*Exempt Team Personnel and Game Officials from the overall number of people allowed in an ice rink at once.

Keep emailing your legislators regardless of political party. There is also a Facebook group entitled “# Let Them Play In PA” with over 20,000 that have joined. 

Keep the pressure on!!

Edited September 7, 2020 by fafa fohi

[BeaverFalls]

4 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

In doing some research these talking points have been circulating amongst a group of friends of mine.  They should be included on any correspondence you send to your legislators regarding #2832.  We are dealing with people that have zero hockey sense nor perspective on rink size, player interaction, etc. so some points  are common sense to us but will help getting those not connected to the sport to understand the challenges we face.

An ice hockey rink is 200- by 85-feet: that's 17,000 square feet of space just in the playing surface, with the overall averaging 25,000 Square feet.  Most facilities with two sheets of ice are over 65,000 square feet!

Under current restrictions in PA, NJ and DE, other more riskier sports are able to fully resume, in much smaller buildings.

50 people in a rink means 500 square feet per person. This is WAY more than restaurants, gyms, entertainment facilities, tattoo parlors, and more. This is also way more space per person than all other sports.

The National Federation of State High School Associations classifies ice hockey as "Moderate Risk" along with basketball, volleyball, soccer, field hockey, girls lacrosse, and 7-on-7 football.

Hockey players never share equipment, do not touch the puck, and there is no skin-to-skin contact.

Research from Eastern Michigan University shows that during a typical hockey game player-to-player close proximity is limited to 3 seconds.

Exempt Team Personnel and Game Officials from the overall number of people allowed in an ice rink at once.

Keep emailing your legislators regardless of political party. There is also a Facebook group entitled “# Let Them Play In PA” with over 20,000 that have joined. 

Keep the pressure on!!

Good numbers. They frustrate me though, because they show the arbitrary nature of this whole debacle.

I hope this works out. I’m just have 0 faith in it happening with the current Governor. 

[PUCKCOVID19]

On 9/4/2020 at 12:48 PM, aaaahockey said:

Anyone have friends in Michigan?   It looks like they can play regular games now with two spectators per player.  Are there caveats to that?

yes!!! you are correct their rinks opened up Wednesday and Thursday of this past week. 2 parents per player MAX!!!  

[Lifelongbender]

21 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Barring someone getting sued (which I think is a stretch because there is a pretty hard burden to prove someone got a disease at a specific place and time) or a rink actually getting shut down by the health department (less likely the longer time goes on in my opinion) those not following the rules will be winners.  Are there actual programs who aren't playing games? (I mean I would assume every team is scheduling some sort of scrimmage games even if they are traveling out of state or am I wrong?)

Masks were "recommended" at the beginning, until they realized that nobody was wearing them. They went and made them mandatory. I think that the Governor is likely to double down on the limits rather than remove them, unless the legislature is successful in removing that option. Seems to me that there is a very good chance that those rinks that are not following the guidelines will cause a total shutdown of hockey for that reason. i hope very much that I am wrong here.

[aaaahockey]

1 hour ago, Lifelongbender said:

Masks were "recommended" at the beginning, until they realized that nobody was wearing them. They went and made them mandatory. I think that the Governor is likely to double down on the limits rather than remove them, unless the legislature is successful in removing that option. Seems to me that there is a very good chance that those rinks that are not following the guidelines will cause a total shutdown of hockey for that reason. i hope very much that I am wrong here.

I dunno. If they haven't gotten in trouble to this point what makes you think that's gonna change?  I'm sure jealous parents have called the health department on all the rinks doing what they want but we still haven't seen much change. Just curious...